Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Come here to discuss Push with other users.
For tech support, please head to http://www.ableton.com/help
[art]
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by [art] » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:48 am

I'm seeing lots of completed listings for Push 1 in my country that are not selling. The best price is $365 Australian ($250 US approx.), which is $20 short of what I save If I swap my Push at a local retailer.

In my mind, the Ableton deal is worth it. It takes the hassle out of having to sell the device in what is obviously a flooded market. But Push has been out for a long time, relatively speaking. Anyone that may have bought one would already have one by now I would say. The hype for wanting a Push 1 is long gone (and at the time of its release the excitement was huge). It may be hard to sell not only because of the Ableton deal, but many future owners will simply prefer the new Push, and who knows how long the devices last and what their end of life expectancy is. Push 2 in many ways I think is a deal for current Push owners. They know we want it, and I think the price is maybe just a bit too high for non-Live users.

So I'm jumping in and getting out while the goings good.

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by blof_eld » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:04 am

I've put my Push 1 up for sale at what I consider a reasonable price for an awesome instrument in great condition. If it sells, I'll get a Push 2. If it doesn't, I'll wait the 6 months or so until (hopefully) the pricing on Push 2 comes down a bit. I think after the trade-in is over that Push 1's will still sell for more than the trade-in money.

The money's not a problem for me, it's more the principle of a controller that is US$775. That's crazy money for what is essentially a bunch of switches with a fairly small non-touchscreen. Plus you still need to buy Ableton Live Suite to use it to the fullest. Compare it to the price of a laptop, and what's included in a laptop, and it seems priced out of this world, even taking into account economies of scale (and there should be some economies of scale involved with the number of Pushes they expect to sell).

I think that price will put a lot of people off as you can do 90% of what you can do with a Push 2 with a Push 1. Sure, people would like the nice screen but some people are on tight budgets and should feel very happy with a used Push 1, as I did when I bought my Push 1, which I still think is an unbelievable controller.

Buleriachk
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 3:52 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by Buleriachk » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:17 am

I think waiting until some arbitrary time in the future in which one MIGHT be able to sell the Push 1 for an undetermined price based on fantasy market conditions is penny wise and pound foolish (as calculated in the amortized cost of living and the enjoyment of creation), since you won't be enjoying the Push 2 (which is a LOT nicer than the Push 1) for all that time. And I'm sure Ableton will be adding features to the Push 2 as it progresses along its journey... some of which may not eventually be available on Push 1.

I think that the trade-in deal is excellent, considering all aspects of the alternatives.


But that is just IMO, YMMV.... :)

H20nly
Posts: 15838
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by H20nly » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:35 am

^ the question kind of becomes; should one pay around $500 for the new features?

H20nly
Posts: 15838
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by H20nly » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:44 am

Dillinger63 wrote:
H20nly wrote: i've seen several threads pop up with user issues and pad sensitivity problems. <--- that's kind of big deal with a pad driven instrument.
Can you direct me to that link?
Like I said, there are a few...

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=218344&p=1680401&h ... 7#p1680401

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=218183&hilit=Pad+push+7


I didn't post in any because I don't have the new pads to speak to, but the forum search helped find the ones above. I've seen it mentioned in at least 2 more.

pinosvalle
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by pinosvalle » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:46 am

I think there are no differences enough between Push 1 and 2 to pay around 400€ more to upgrade.

I'm quite sure that 90-95% of people that has purchased the new one, would make the same work with Push 1. I think there is a lot of fetishsm in this case.

scheffkoch
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by scheffkoch » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:53 am

...not true...the color coding alone makes it worth imo...really...it's not just blinkin' lights...the whole controller makes much more sense now...
macbook pro late 2016, osx 10.13.6, rme multiface via sonnet thunderbolt expresscard adapter + thunderbolt to usb-c adapter, ableton live 10.0.1, push 2, komplete 9, maschine 2.7.6, touchable

[art]
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by [art] » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:08 am

I was thinking that. Push 1 was extremly novel, but there was always a bunch of functionality that was a bummer. People using Push 2 may actually make more music, simply because they use it more.

Still, I dont have it yet. Will find out in the next couple days.

pinosvalle
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by pinosvalle » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:16 am

I'm not saying Push 1 = Push 2
I mean, colour coding, sample editing, new pads...ok. But I think these improvements do not cost 400€.
And not only this: with Push 1 you still have almost the same functionality that you have with Push 2.

If I sell my Push 1 and the new one cost me 100-150€, I would think about upgrading. But not for 400€...

tedlogan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Contact:

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by tedlogan » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:29 am

Yes, the upgrade price for a new screen and a tiny bit more functionality is too expensive for me. Like I've said before, I've not had problems using the old interface - whether it be loading or editing. (Apart from non-renaming of VST banks, omitted native parameters etc - but that's not specific to Push 1).

That said, my brother has just 100% confirmed he'll be buying my Push V1 in December. So fate forces my hand to reach for the wallet. At least I found a 20% discount through some channel for Push 2, so it'll cost me £250 overall. It's not me! It's outside forces!

Also getting more and more into Simpler, so that screen might just become almost essential if I wanna keep my eyes on the
controller...

And, life's too short.


Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:00 am

blof_eld wrote:
The money's not a problem for me, it's more the principle of a controller that is US$775. That's crazy money for what is essentially a bunch of switches with a fairly small non-touchscreen.


....my Push 1, which I still think is an unbelievable controller.
That really sounds like it's the money to me. You mention economics of scale yet completely misses that the target market for a Push is way smaller than a laptop and the development time (Design takes time). Also, most laptop makers (except Apple) are happy to make any profit at all. It's not in our interest to have an Ableton that is not healthy and evolving.

Push 1 is as great as ever. If you play with a Push 2 the risk is that you'll like that even better.
Make some music!

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by blof_eld » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:27 am

Stromkraft wrote:That really sounds like it's the money to me. You mention economics of scale yet completely misses that the target market for a Push is way smaller than a laptop and the development time (Design takes time). Also, most laptop makers (except Apple) are happy to make any profit at all. It's not in our interest to have an Ableton that is not healthy and evolving.

Push 1 is as great as ever. If you play with a Push 2 the risk is that you'll like that even better.
I guess you're right, it is the money, in a way... I can afford it easily if I want it now, but if the upgrade was less than, say, $200, I'd get one today. What I meant was, I don't think it's worth that much more money for maybe 10% more functionality.

I don't care about track colors (actually, why can't the Push 1 do track colors?), and I like the pads on my Push 1 already. So the only real difference for me is the screen. And that screen is not worth that much difference in price to me. Even the screen, although I'm sure it's useful and definitely an improvement, is not super impressive to me. It's fairly small and not touch-capable. Plus I would like it if it could be tilted up. Anyway, all that will probably come in Push 3.

I'm also sort-of taking the gamble that it will drop in price. I'm really happy with my Push 1 anyway, and I don't think the Push 2 can stay at that sky-high price for long if they want to sell any after the bleeding-edgers already have one.

NoSonic822
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by NoSonic822 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:43 am

Machinesworking wrote:. The math isn't hard, in six months time it's going to be possible to pick up Push 2 for $200-350 after selling Push 1
yea, im in canada so it costs $1000 CAD, with the tradein it goes down to $700, i paid $600 for push1 about a year ago.....so....why would i trade that in to hopefully get 300$ off and pay $700 + taxes 791$ for a machine that does the exact same thing mine does already......except with (hopefully) better pads, and a better screen

it's not like it has a XY pad/xfader/sliders...or somethign that really changes it functionally for performance.....

what does look better abou tit....is they put the buttons for octaves and stuff in a better place...etc....so there should be some improvments ergonomically over push1....but it doesnt make sense ata ll for me to get push 2.....not even a bit

the other thing is that you still get the good stuff from the 9.5 upgrade.....like the simpler and the slicing in simpler

it gives you thos automatic pads for slicing in simpler which is HUGE...like when you load ina sample to simp[ler, it automatically slices it into all those pads thats AMAZING lol
10% more functionality.
i would say even less than that...

for what the Push does overall.....the added stuff is like 5%......especially for me who doesnt care about the sample chopping with beats very much...

if there was like some REALLy good stuff that push2 allowed like

moving clips around from within Push....or like asssigning the strip to anything with automap.....then yes push2 would be worthi it....but it doesnt

scheffkoch
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Reasons for keeping Push 1, please add yours

Post by scheffkoch » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:16 am

...when you do live performances i'd say that the colour coding alone is worth the upgrade...+ it's much more easy to access the channel's devices...
macbook pro late 2016, osx 10.13.6, rme multiface via sonnet thunderbolt expresscard adapter + thunderbolt to usb-c adapter, ableton live 10.0.1, push 2, komplete 9, maschine 2.7.6, touchable

Post Reply