Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Come here to discuss Push with other users.
For tech support, please head to http://www.ableton.com/help
Post Reply
molefonken
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:19 am

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by molefonken » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:36 pm

Ableton Live 9.5.1b5 is out. Can someone with velocity problems check if it's better? Looks like they are still working on a proper fix.

Push 2 Firmware is updated to build 46. This Firmware update is intended to mitigate unexpected high velocity values which might be triggered when Push pads are played softly. This is an intermediate step towards a proper fix. Please note that, depending on your pad sensitivity settings, it might now be more difficult to reach maximum velocity.

tedlogan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Contact:

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by tedlogan » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:21 pm

I think it's better now. I'm also monitoring through M4l Expression Control's visual Output meter. Seems pretty normal now. there are still spikes, but reduced. certainly no 127-value ones, which made properly playing softly impossible.
Last edited by tedlogan on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.

emkays
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by emkays » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:16 pm

@molefonkin Nope. It's slightly better but the underlying cause/issue is still there. As are all the other associated side effects of delay and strange "squeeze" response. But as they said, this is an intermediate fix as they're working on actually resolving the problem. Looking forward to that.

thronechild
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:56 am
Location: Saint Louis
Contact:

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by thronechild » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:51 pm

Just got a replacement and it has the same issue. Not sure what to do now. I have contacted support, hopefully it is software and can be patched.

kabur glasgow
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:09 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by kabur glasgow » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:58 pm

I have the same problem. I have described it cumbersomely as:
I have noticed (very quickly) when playing Push 2 that the note mode is inferior to Push 1.

I will explain by giving the example of playing a gentle, slow piano section in which you wish to hold certain notes for a few seconds (by holding the key (pad) down).

When you do this, you generally strike* the pad gently, then press* the pad firmly** (so as to ensure the holding pressure on the pad does not fall below the threshold which constitutes 'releasing' the pad). Occasionally of course, when playing very gently, you may not strike the pad enough to register a keystroke. Human error. It is precisely in THIS scenario where Push 1 behaves better than Push 2.

Push 1 would simply 'miss' the initial strike of the keystroke, and subsequent press pressure would not trigger the note. Makes sense. Smart Push 1.

Push 2 would also 'miss' the initial strike of the keystroke, but the subsequent press pressure would trigger the note (often at high velocity (loudly)). No sense. Dumb Push 2.

I believe the issue is roughly that Push 1 is better able to differentiate between a strike and a press. As someone who plays the aforementioned kind of music, I am considering returning the Push 2 (which otherwise has exceptional design) and keeping the Push 1.

* strike = when the finger comes from a position away from the pad down onto the pad
* press = when the finger is already on the pad (after a strike) and is then pushed down into the pad
** I'm not considering any after-touch effects
My intuition is that it's a firmware issue. If this is the case, I could wait for the firmware upgrade. However, the problem has existed for some time now. I'm not sure who did the coding for the Push 1 – if it was Ableton (may have been Akai), then I imagine they would be able to fix the issue quickish. They'd just have to grab some code from Push 1, tweak it a bit and implement it in Push 2.

If anyone has any updates from Ableton, it would be great to hear them. Also, any guys in Ableton, it would be really great to have updates on the progress of the fix – apart from keeping us in the loop for our recently purchased product, it's interesting to know! :]

Lowfront
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by Lowfront » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:39 pm

1. Occasional full velocity notes with light taps on the pad. I think this may be related to the known issue of touching a pad lightly (too light to trigger a note) and increasing pressure until it eventually spits out a note at full velocity.



They really really need to get this fixed. I'm missing my push 1 right now.

kabur glasgow
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:09 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by kabur glasgow » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Lowfront wrote:1. Occasional full velocity notes with light taps on the pad. I think this may be related to the known issue of touching a pad lightly (too light to trigger a note) and increasing pressure until it eventually spits out a note at full velocity.



They really really need to get this fixed. I'm missing my push 1 right now.
Second that! I still have my Push 1, and my time for sending it back is running out. Can someone from Ableton please just update us on what's occurring? :)

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by [jur] » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:58 am

Ableton is taking it very seriously and is working on this. New firmware in beta testing; and if you want to participate you're welcome :
https://www.ableton.com/en/beta/
Ableton Forum Moderator

kabur glasgow
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:09 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by kabur glasgow » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:36 am

[jur] wrote:Ableton is taking it very seriously and is working on this. New firmware in beta testing; and if you want to participate you're welcome :
https://www.ableton.com/en/beta/
Just tried out the latest firmware (Live 9.5.1b6), two weeks old, and nothing has changed on this front. I am looking at these videos, which appear to show that the hardware is the same, meaning the issue should be able to be resolved with a firmware update.

https://youtu.be/gYGI1jYePqc?t=421
https://youtu.be/YItWQdJgXLs?t=360

But so far it hasn't been, and it's been a while. I asked Ableton and had the same response as above. :/

scheffkoch
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by scheffkoch » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:44 am

..from the release notes:

Changes for Push:

Push 2 Firmware is updated to build 46. This Firmware update is intended to mitigate unexpected high velocity values which might be triggered when Push pads are played softly. This is an intermediate step towards a proper fix. Please note that, depending on your pad sensitivity settings, it might now be more difficult to reach maximum velocity.
macbook pro late 2016, osx 10.13.6, rme multiface via sonnet thunderbolt expresscard adapter + thunderbolt to usb-c adapter, ableton live 10.0.1, push 2, komplete 9, maschine 2.7.6, touchable

lxm9096
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:09 am

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by lxm9096 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:19 am

My Push 2 does not update automatically like it says it does. Im still showing 44.

Sound Avenue
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by Sound Avenue » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:30 pm

My Push 2 wont start up with live. Installed the beta too, no success. When i activate port 2, suddenly the Push seems to come to life, but its only the buttons and screen displaying. No reaction or midi response when i play buttons. I really hope Ableton is working on this.. W10, 64 bit System, also with Komplete Kontrol. Ive read about these two not liking eachother, but without Komplete it wont work eather.

lxm9096
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:09 am

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by lxm9096 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:34 pm

Sound Avenue wrote:My Push 2 wont start up with live. Installed the beta too, no success. When i activate port 2, suddenly the Push seems to come to life, but its only the buttons and screen displaying. No reaction or midi response when i play buttons. I really hope Ableton is working on this.. W10, 64 bit System, also with Komplete Kontrol. Ive read about these two not liking eachother, but without Komplete it wont work eather.
Cant windows only have one MIDI device open at one time?

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:49 am

lxm9096 wrote:
Sound Avenue wrote:My Push 2 wont start up with live. Installed the beta too, no success. When i activate port 2, suddenly the Push seems to come to life, but its only the buttons and screen displaying. No reaction or midi response when i play buttons. I really hope Ableton is working on this.. W10, 64 bit System, also with Komplete Kontrol. Ive read about these two not liking eachother, but without Komplete it wont work eather.
Cant windows only have one MIDI device open at one time?
Ehh no. You can have many MIDI Devices. Never been any limitation on Windows I am aware of.

kabur glasgow
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:09 pm

Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by kabur glasgow » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:54 pm

Finally I have decided to send the Push 2 back for a refund (they have let me use the Push 1 return label). I am open to repurchasing it when this issue is solved. So I'll keep a keen eye on this thread!

Post Reply