Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

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fishmonkey
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:55 am

after more testing, i'm sad to say that the Push 2 with Live 9.5 definitely has some serious pad sensitivity and latency issues...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

starving student
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:05 am

JPacker555 wrote:I hate to say it, but I don't think its the break in period. The Push 1 you see in those videos was purchased new only a couple of weeks before the Push 2 was announced, so I was able to compare them both in mint condition.

If anybody can confirm the technique in takerith's video though, that would be awesome

Also for those with windows, rest assure I am having the dynamic playing issues on my mac as well (both mid 2011 MacBook Air core i5 1.5GHz 4GB RAM OSX 10.11 El Capitan and mid 2014 Mac Mini dual core i5 2.3 GHz 8GB RAM OSX 10.10 Yosemite)

Jared what about this, it's not possible with your push 2?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lymIi1Sfsg

fishmonkey
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:35 am

starving student wrote:
JPacker555 wrote:I hate to say it, but I don't think its the break in period. The Push 1 you see in those videos was purchased new only a couple of weeks before the Push 2 was announced, so I was able to compare them both in mint condition.

If anybody can confirm the technique in takerith's video though, that would be awesome

Also for those with windows, rest assure I am having the dynamic playing issues on my mac as well (both mid 2011 MacBook Air core i5 1.5GHz 4GB RAM OSX 10.11 El Capitan and mid 2014 Mac Mini dual core i5 2.3 GHz 8GB RAM OSX 10.10 Yosemite)

Jared what about this, it's not possible with your push 2?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lymIi1Sfsg
there's not a lot of dynamic range in that piece. there are also a couple of places where you can hear velocity spikes...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

starving student
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:33 am

the spikes I'm aware of and ableton is going to fix that, but I'm worried about the other stuff Jared and Ted are talking about regarding playability responsiveness, there are other people touting how much noticeably more playable push 2 is and then there are others saying it's not as playable as push 1.. I want to know exactly what is the deal because the people saying it's more playable are saying it's the quiet stuff that is much better, while jared etc.. are saying it's the same stuff that isn't as good.

if it's not as good then this is something else that ableton will need to address before I'm satisfied.

starving student
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:36 am

btw what is the difference in dynamics in the instrument in that video I posted and the instrument that Jared used in his video example?

fishmonkey
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:04 am

i don't find Push 2 unplayable. the only thing that is really wrong which i'm sure can be fixed in the firmware is the big spikes when you are holding down another pad, or touching a pad and pressing relatively lightly. the first is clearly a bug in the firmware, the second requires some tweaking.

i am a bit surprised that these weren't noticed and fixed before release though...

overall i prefer the higher sensitivity and less wooden feel of Push 2. as someone who also plays more traditional instruments i never liked the feel of the Push 1 pads.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

starving student
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:30 am

I thought Jared's point was that actually Push 2 does not have higher sensitivity than push 1?

also the touch strip difference is a bit concerning as well, I think I might prefer the way it works on push 1, that way seems to have more functionality. I wonder if they will address this too.

fishmonkey
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:14 am

sensitivity is maybe the wrong word. what i mean is that the Push 2 pads are more tactile. the Push 1 pads are very unyielding, it's really like you are pressing a hard block of rubber, there's no sense of tactile feedback.

it's the same reason why i am not overly excited about touch screen technology, it feels so flat and lifeless...

also, i don't have any issues with light playing not triggering notes. i have my Push 2 set to 5/5/5 and it triggers well, apart from the buggy high velocity stuff noted in this thread.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

starving student
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:27 am

i see, great. Thanks for all of the info. Push 2 is such an extremely important purchase for me, I'm hoping that Ableton will iron out all of these issues quickly and with urgency...

Razz CE
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by Razz CE » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:22 pm

fishmonkey wrote: it's the same reason why i am not overly excited about touch screen technology, it feels so flat and lifeless...
Yeah I hate touch screens for like... most tasks. It's nice for just clicking or dragging something here and there, but anything that requires a little finesse, like typing, is nightmarish on touch screens.


I have to say, as far as the way the pads actually physically feel, I must be in the minority but I liked Push 1 better. It's not a big deal at all, because Push 2 still feels good, but the Push 1 pads were not like anything I'd felt before. It made it feel unique like you were getting something that was truly a head and shoulders above everything else. The sort of unyielding bounce of them made it slightly easier to do flams and rolls with drums as well. My music uses mostly drums and synths, but I've played guitar for half my life, so I practice Push with a guitar instrument most of the time. I suppose the new pads do feel better for that sort of work, so I see where you're coming from.

The dynamics issue is significantly better for me in 9.5b3. It's not fixed but it's not as constant. When submitting a bug report on the beta forum I actually had to make an effort to reproduce it, whereas on the stable version it's unavoidable all the time.

I have a unique problem with the display that's a bit of a nuisance, but for me the biggest problems are the pad delay and the touch strip. I can always edit velocity later, but if the instrument doesn't interpret my input in time it'll throw off the whole recording and I have to do another take.


None of this is really a big worry for me though. From what I've read about Live 8 and Push 1, Ableton has a history of putting stuff out that's still got some problems. They're not a huge company and can only test for so many contingencies. They've always fixed things eventually. I suggest everyone hang tight and wait for the devs to get on it.

There are so many reasons why Push is the best midi instrument in the world, IMO. It does so many jobs as well as or better than other controllers that are specifically designated for just that one task. Can't wait for the devs to fix everything up so we can all get the most out of it.
Win 10 x64/16GB/i7 6700k
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Audient iD4/Push 2/Steinberg CMC-CH/Launchkey 25

tedlogan
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by tedlogan » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:03 pm

I wouldn't call it unplaybable no. The main problem I notice is the sudden 127-velocity spikes, which Ableton are working on.

I don't have the huge difference in sensitivity in that one video, V1 and V2 here are actually very very similar (push 1 set to -13, default curve; push 2 set to 6,5,5). Considering that both units use different sensitivity settings, I cannot accurately make a fair comparison unless I set these up to be exactly equal in response, which I failed to do.

Playing right now (on both units), apart from the velocity spikes, Push 2 feels fine. I don't know why it seemed so lacking yesterday. It responds pretty much exactly the same to very light tapping/playing. In fact, I cannot tell the difference between the two.

Perhaps something in my whole setup was bugging out yesterday. I have had rare occasions, before Push2, where Push 1 would not quite play well, with bizarre pad response. Power on/off fixed it. This happened maybe 10 times in 2 years.

Even if Ableton announce tomorrow that they hate Push 2 , and hate me, and will never update the unit ever, I will still buy it straight away again if stolen. It is just awesome overall, and I do not even really use Live's instruments that much, being a u-he fanboy. I've got those synths set up in such a way with Push 2 that I get no sleep most nights as I cannot tear myself away from this thing.

And I was so close to not upgrading from V1

nobuhiko
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by nobuhiko » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:58 am

I just found out that i have same issues... :cry:
is this happening only for us?
I posted about this on FB ableton user group but seems like it's not happening to others..

fishmonkey
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by fishmonkey » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:02 am

Ableton have already acknowledged the velocity spike issue...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

tedlogan
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by tedlogan » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:37 pm

Anyone else find that you have to exert way too much force to activate and keep aftertouch at 100%? I've tried various pad settings, all require ridiculous amount of force to control. Push 1 was perfect in this regard. I do hope they're working on improving this too.

Push 1 - engage a bit of muscle in the finger and hand with minimal arm flexing, pressing the pad to control and modulate aftertouch
Push 2 - literally have to flex my whole arm's muscles to engage 100% and modulate from there.

All my AT patches are much harder to play.

thronechild
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Re: Anyone else find the Push 2 unplayable?

Post by thronechild » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:11 pm

I am going to try to exchange my unit because I feel like it is difficult to play. I wonder if the issue is related to the shape of the velocity curve that you can modify in settings. The very beginning of it has almost 0 velocity and then it starts to rise I wonder if it's interpreting The velocity differently or if there was a way to smooth the front part of that curve similar to how are you can with the built in midi velocity device.

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