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Arrangement overdub

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:04 pm
by yesNiko
hey,

I have done so far an arrangement, but in some cases i miss single drum hits. Now if I want to overdub and record into arrangement to add a single drum hit, everything gets deleted in the whole drum pattern?
Am I doing something wrong?

Greets

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:04 am
by yesNiko
push :D

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:24 am
by scheffkoch
...have you activated arrangement overdub in preferences?...

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:43 am
by jestermgee
If you use Push you need to make sure you are in Session mode on Push or it will auto-arm a track and scrub when you record. Many times that has caught me out.

Other than that you just need overdub enabled.

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:23 am
by Stromkraft
jestermgee wrote:If you use Push you need to make sure you are in Session mode on Push or it will auto-arm a track and scrub when you record. Many times that has caught me out.
This doesn't happen to me in Live 9.6 and the original Push.

Recording to armed tracks in Arrangement mode and overdubbing works as expected. I hold down shift and the record button on the Push to activate Arrangement recording. I record automation as well so my transport controls would look like this before I press play (my "Start Playback with Record" is off):
Image.

I have experienced some irritations like multiple clips becoming one when overdubbing, but that's by design even if I certainly don't like it. You can also use the Punch-In switch to make overdubs only in certain places.

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:32 am
by Stromkraft
scheffkoch wrote:...have you activated arrangement overdub in preferences?...
Arrangement overdub is activated by the '+' sign in the transport control. Did you mean something else in the preferences?

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:03 pm
by yesNiko
yes the "plus" sign is activated.

Ok, look i try to explain it again. I have done a session, lets say 5-6 scenes are done.
Now i want to write the scenes to the arrangement, to bounce that whole track.
So i go to arrangement view and deactavate the red little button at the top corner of the arrangement view.
This button allows you to write to arrangement. Now I start recording, and launching scenes as i desire till im finished.

Now I listened to the track in the arrangement and heared that some manually drum fills are missing. So i want to add them
while playing the track from the arrangement cause i dont feel that in the session mode.

Logicaly i should activate the overdub button and i should be able to add my missing midi notes to the track WITHOUT overwriting it.
But that doesnt happen.

I hope everything is clear now,
Thank you

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:31 pm
by Stromkraft
yesNiko wrote:
Logicaly i should activate the overdub button and i should be able to add my missing midi notes to the track WITHOUT overwriting it.
But that doesnt happen.
I understood as much. I recognize your issue, but I'm not sure what state causes this specifically.
A quick test in Live 9.6 indicates what you expect should be possible. It could be a bug possibly, but I'm far from certain as this intersection between Session and Arrangement is a little clouded.

It could be there something in the preferences that is affecting this. I've made a specific set up some time ago, but I don't see what exactly governs this at a glance.

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:52 pm
by Stromkraft
I made a bug report today to Ableton about overdubbing in Arrangement being intermittently not working in Live 9.6.

I had cued up to locator points where I intended to overdub automation on existing clips in the same track. The first 2 recordings went as expected, but on the last the existing MIDI data was replaced and I could repeat this once and record a screen video of the problem that I included with my bug report together with a status report.

I did everything in the same way from the Push:
  • 1. moved to a locator point
  • 2. Made sure the '+' and automation signs were active in Live
  • 3. Pressed Shift + the Push record button and then the Push play button
The fact remains that this procedure worked as expected multiple times. From where I'm seeing this that's a trademark of a bug, that the same procedures leads to different operations.

I suggest you people encountering this problem as well as others try and make a detailed bug report with all steps you do described, so that they can squash this bug. They have done so in the past with other issues, so please keep reporting well for the benefit of all of us users.

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:11 am
by yesNiko
no i found the bug recently, its like that:

if you record a loop, lets say, a sample, bass, percussions etc.. in session view, everything is cool.
You can also easily record that to arrangement by: deactivating that "session view" - button (red), press record
and go to "session"-button on push and play the section.
So you get things in arrangementview.

But now the bug:

If you change something in the arrangement, lets say add a bass note. And if you decide like, no i will record that
with overdub into arrangement view. Then u are fucked up, cause it will always delete your midi information from the arrangement view.
Why? - Because you can only overdub something if it is exactly the same like the clip from the session view. That means,
If you want to overdub anything live in arrangementview you have to be sure that you copy your whole track (every 4 bars) into your session view.

Greets (im software dev)

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:10 pm
by Stromkraft
yesNiko wrote: If you change something in the arrangement, lets say add a bass note. And if you decide like, no i will record that
with overdub into arrangement view. Then u are fucked up, cause it will always delete your midi information from the arrangement view.
Why? - Because you can only overdub something if it is exactly the same like the clip from the session view.
I agree there is a bug, but it has nothing to do with the clip in session. All clips in Live are unrelated and do not normally affect each other.

My experience is that sometimes the MIDI data is deleted and sometimes it overdubbed as expected.

If we all with this issue report to Ableton support with our respective experiences then Ableton stand a greater chance to fix this.

Re: Arrangement overdub

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:34 pm
by eclipxe
This is still happening in Live 10.1 Beta.

A workaround - always toggle the MIDI arrangement overdub ("+") off and on when trying to overdub in arrangement. It seems the state gets messed up when going between session record and arrangement.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Go to session view
2. Record a new clip
3. Turn on MIDI Arrangement overdub ("+")
4. Click on session record
5. Click on session record again to toggle it off
6. Start recording at timeline position overlapping the start of the first clip

Expected behavior:
MIDI notes will be added to existing clip

Observed behavior:
Clip is overwritten with a new clip.

The MIDI arrangement overdub button has to be toggled off and back off for this to work correctly. Anytime the session record is selected, the overdub state is incorrect.