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Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:36 pm
by t-bag
Sorry if this is overlaps with other threads but I felt some of my issues were a bit different.

I have a casual interest in music production, with very limited experience, mainly in GarageBand.

I have been looking at buying a MIDI controller with a view to producing some hip hop beats as a hobby.

I also work with teenagers with mental health difficulties e.g. depression, and hope that if I develop my skills enough I could use this as a way of support i.e. producing music together to help improve their mood, confidence and self-esteem.

I was torn between purchasing the Push 2 and Maschine Studio. In the end I chose the Push 2, largely due to convincing by staff in my local store.

However, I’m now regretting my purchase and wondering whether I should have got the Maschine. There sounds on Maschine seem to be more geared towards hip hop. Also the interface of the Push seems more complex, whereas Maschine seems like it would have been simpler for teenagers to quickly get a hang of. I think I prefer 16 pad mode to the step sequencer, though I am aware you can use either.

It may still be possible at this stage to send the Push back and get Maschine. However, it’s very early days, and with time to learn the Push, and with more hip hop sounds, perhaps it will grow on me. I’m aware the unit has some big positives e.g. the sampler, warping, chords etc.

I’ve also got a good deal for Ableton Education Suite, though I haven’t activated this yet and may just stick with Intro instead, and use the money towards some better sounds elsewhere.

I’ve also got a local producer who has agreed to teach me the basics of music production with whatever I choose.

So my questions

1) Stick with the Push, get the Maschine Studio, or wait for the next Maschine (which may not be far off)?

2) Stick with Abelton Suite, use Intro instead, or use alternative software (given my basic skills and needs)? I’m aware I need to stick to Ableton if keeping the Push.

3) If keeping the Push, what would be the best way to get more hip hop sounds?

Many thanks for your time

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:08 pm
by yur2die4
I love Maschine, but in this case I feel that Push can be advantageous for several reasons.

1. The Live interface is great with and without Push, and offers a lot of potential and flexibility. They can learn a lot even without Push connected.

2. The notes mode is very easy to catch on to. The step sequencer is also really great.

As for sounds, I think you can show them how to bring in their own. Start by giving them a few samples, loops and basic 'pieces', but also encourage them to make some of their own from their voice, things around them, etc.

The biggest advantage is #2 though. That notes mode can be really fun. It's also easy to play 'along' to other music (played off an iPod for instance) by selecting/finding the correct key.

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:13 am
by login
The melodic/harmony part is easier on Push, I like it way more for that. I think that for kids the step sequencers of Push would be also more intuitive.

As for sounds: just look for some good libraries of single shots and load them with Push.

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:07 am
by 1223 STUDIOS | Push2Man
t-bag wrote:Sorry if this is overlaps with other threads but I felt some of my issues were a bit different.

I have a casual interest in music production, with very limited experience, mainly in GarageBand.

I have been looking at buying a MIDI controller with a view to producing some hip hop beats as a hobby.

I also work with teenagers with mental health difficulties e.g. depression, and hope that if I develop my skills enough I could use this as a way of support i.e. producing music together to help improve their mood, confidence and self-esteem.

I was torn between purchasing the Push 2 and Maschine Studio. In the end I chose the Push 2, largely due to convincing by staff in my local store.

However, I’m now regretting my purchase and wondering whether I should have got the Maschine. There sounds on Maschine seem to be more geared towards hip hop. Also the interface of the Push seems more complex, whereas Maschine seems like it would have been simpler for teenagers to quickly get a hang of. I think I prefer 16 pad mode to the step sequencer, though I am aware you can use either.

It may still be possible at this stage to send the Push back and get Maschine. However, it’s very early days, and with time to learn the Push, and with more hip hop sounds, perhaps it will grow on me. I’m aware the unit has some big positives e.g. the sampler, warping, chords etc.

I’ve also got a good deal for Ableton Education Suite, though I haven’t activated this yet and may just stick with Intro instead, and use the money towards some better sounds elsewhere.

I’ve also got a local producer who has agreed to teach me the basics of music production with whatever I choose.

So my questions

1) Stick with the Push, get the Maschine Studio, or wait for the next Maschine (which may not be far off)?

2) Stick with Abelton Suite, use Intro instead, or use alternative software (given my basic skills and needs)? I’m aware I need to stick to Ableton if keeping the Push.

3) If keeping the Push, what would be the best way to get more hip hop sounds?

Many thanks for your time
Hey I produce Hip Hop and that is the main reason I got Ableton Push 2, it almost feels like it was designed for hip hop I am sample based producer so this was a huge thing for me personally. I had the Maschine for 4 years and while it was great I never loved it like I love my Push 2 and Push 2 has made me a better producer at the end of the day, learning Ableton in general has made me a better producer. I never really have to touch the mouse and keyboard when I am using Push 2 besides some really specific things, I would say 95% of the time I don't touch my mouse when producing music now.

Stick with Ableton Push 2 you really won't regret it I have never had a faster work flow in hip hop production. I promise the more you use it the more it will just click, the device is so intuitive I learned it by taking a pure hands on approach. To answer your other question check out reddit.com/drumkits for some good hip hop sounds also check out http://www.looperman.com/loops for some great free Hip Hop inspiration and they are royalty free loops I have actually heard songs on the radio that used samples from looperman. Keep in mind most Hip Hop drum sounds are usually basic drum sounds with a lot of effects on them, also deep 808s and hard snares. Check out some drum loops and maybe chop them up and cut up your own drum kit, if all else fails.

I make videos and they are hip hop production themed feel free to check them out I just made a post about it. I hope you don't give up on the Push 2. Here is one about using the slicing mode to chop samples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWVPp-YUWnA .

If theres any thing else just ask I am here to help answer questions, one of my main purposes to even creating videos and posting on these sites is so that I can spread the word that Push 2 is an excellent tool for Hip Hop and its not just an machine for EDM music and live performances. I would even go as far as making a video that addresses your main questions.

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:10 am
by 1223 STUDIOS | Push2Man
yur2die4 wrote:I love Maschine, but in this case I feel that Push can be advantageous for several reasons.

1. The Live interface is great with and without Push, and offers a lot of potential and flexibility. They can learn a lot even without Push connected.

2. The notes mode is very easy to catch on to. The step sequencer is also really great.

As for sounds, I think you can show them how to bring in their own. Start by giving them a few samples, loops and basic 'pieces', but also encourage them to make some of their own from their voice, things around them, etc.

The biggest advantage is #2 though. That notes mode can be really fun. It's also easy to play 'along' to other music (played off an iPod for instance) by selecting/finding the correct key.

I can't stress enough how awesome the step sequencer always being above my drum rack has been, its crazy if I mess up a timing on a drum I can clearly see where its messed up I can PUSH the pad and boom its deleted and then I can put it where its meant to go by just simply PUSHing the correct pad on the step sequencer.

Such a time saver, quantizing can only do so much sometimes and step sequencer on Push 2 has cut down my time to make a beat, I am talking work flow increased by a ton.


Note mode is slick, and the fact that I can just hit Add Device then go to Midi Effects and add Chord to it is just great.

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:35 pm
by Jay_NJ
Push is amazing for hip hop. There are some great kits right out of the box. I mean, you've got 808s, breaks etc. Not sure what you're looking for, but you could always process you're sounds a bit to make them more lo fi if that's the sound you're after. Or, you could pick up one of the Ableton packs such as this one by Raw Cutz. Then you've got you're stuff ready to go. Check it out. The demo is on Maschine, but I picked up the Ableton version and it's the exact same thing but in drum rack form for Push.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wldC0smOCrI

You could also purchase some hip hop samples and create your own drum racks. Don't give up on Push just because you dont think the sounds suit your taste. Expand your sounds then.

Jeff

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:56 am
by starving student
for hiphop
for working with kids
for keeping them interested
for them actually learning something useful
and for something that speaks to the heart of hiphop production which is sampling.
you definitely want Push.

teaching kids hiphop but putting the priority on maschines sample library is in essence contradictory.

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:19 pm
by 4T
I'm gonna disagree with a few of the posts here. I was a Maschine MK2 user for a couple years and can say I pretty much know it inside out. It was Maschines drawbacks that ended up being deal breakers for me. I thought Push 2 was the answer but so far (a few months in) my feelings are mixed.

First of all, my key reasons for going to Push2 & Ableton from Maschine were the following 3 things that Maschine lacks and by the looks of it with their slow rate of updates won't be addressed any time this millenium. They are:
1. Offline timestretcch
2. Poor DAW intergartion
3. Creating Arrangements using Maschines scene workflow

On the surface, Ableton/Push addresses all 3.

However, Maschine is FAR more tightly focused on sampled based producers (which I myself am). The response of the hardware to the software is far superior to Push2 which can be annoyingly sluggish at times. Display lag, waiting more than a few seconds for simple tasks like cropping and even deleteing sounds or moving tracks around (in my case drum racks) can have you sitting there thinking, really, it takes THIS long?? Never had such issues with Maschine. Cropping, normalizing, slicing, chopping, re-organizng sounds and saving kits WITH samples (which isn't possible with Ableton) was a breeze and INSTANT on Maschine.

You say you're casual? Well then Maschine wins again. It's far more streamlined and straight forward than Ableton is. Maschine is focused on beats and not doing things like recording vocals but then again niether is Ableton. Recording vocals and comping them? Ableton is almost as bad as Maschine.

In closing, Ableton IS far more advanced than Maschine feature wise and will accomodate moderate to advanced users much more than Maschine will but honestly speaking, simplicity is Maschines biggest strength. If you just want to sample something, chop it up, throw some drums, create some loops and browse your VST instruments all with superior tagging, than Maschine is the one. And Maschines sound banks ARE more geard towards hiphop & urban stles. I would encourage you to bring in your own sounds & samples but out the box, none of the Ableton stock sounds leaped out at me with regards to inspiring me to make a hiphop beat.

Maschines deal breakers mean I will stick with Push 2 for the time being but if NI shock me with a 3.0 update this year which addresses my concerns, I can hands down say my Push 2 will go up for sale the same week.

To answer your question, try to do something as bare bones as recording a simple drum beat and adding a bassline and see which of the 2 units, Maschine Studio or Push 2, gets OUT your way and 'agrees' with your workflow.

Hope that helps, let us know how you get on.

ps @KG I'm gonna check out your links. Good to come across other hiphop Ableton Push 2 users online. The number of EDM tutorials I've had to sit through...

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:20 pm
by Jay_NJ
4T, you definitely make some valid points. The one thing I'll add in support of Push 2 though, is that it's really easy to import a drumloop (or any loop) and slice it to a drumrack with the click of a button. That feature was one of the selling points that made me sell my Push 1.

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:47 am
by starving student
@4T, I guess everyones personal experience is different but just out of curiosity I'm sure you've seen the push 2 hiphop videos or sample slicing videos etc... was your experience any more difficult than most of Push 2 videos you see on the yt cause they all seem pretty quick and simple, I also know that everybody's computer system specs and interfaces differ as well ?

Re: Regretting Push 2 Purchase - Please Help

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:51 am
by muthafunka
What's the OP'S post actually about?

You want to make beats but can't because Push doesn't come with ready-made 'hip-hop' sounds? (which are?)
You haven't figured out how to use Push and got post-purchase droop?
You want to teach/help as a business but not sure if Push is right for your potential students?

Give us some examples of the kind of thing you'd like to aim for as a hobby.
Have you made anything with Push or even tried tried/explored?
Anything you teach will come from your knowledge and experience and you need to commit and work at developing that. Sounds like teaching, business et is waaaaay down the road - if you can't get into making music for yourself how are you ever going to teach?

my 2 Yen : I had Maschine for a while, didn't click for me at all work-flow-wise and having to learn another DAW was torturous.
Push 2 on the other hand is all kinds of fun (for me) - still has its quirks but in terms of its integration with Live it makes much more sense. I have Komplete but if you just buy a 2nd hand Battery you'll get all the same drums content as Maschine (someone correct me if I'm wrong).