Push2 build quality

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dozz
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:27 pm

Push2 build quality

Post by dozz » Wed May 04, 2016 11:12 am

After owning Push1 for almost 2 years I finally got push2 thru trade-in and must say Im very disappointed with build quality, design , tech. decision especially regarding buttons and knobs its 3-4 steps down from push 1.

All knobs have different tightness, they are wobbly and some of them produce feeling like they get stuck and then when you go on they are scratching either against housing or itself. Tried twisting knobs with different angles, force nothing helps so it must be -> jitter due to electrical noise. :roll: -> (Push 2 Firmware update v 0.51: introduces an improvement for potentiomenters, to prevent jitter due to electrical noise.)

On push 1 after 2 years of really abusing it, twisting knobs hard, easy without thinking from what angle to hold it they are still rock solid, on push2 after after using it only for 2 hours i dont think they will survive more than 2-3 months of easy twisting...

Buttons .. ?? Can i even call it button ? Its some old fashion calculator switch in rubbery raincoat intended to be pressed very gently just few times in their life .. I wonder is there some warranty on under used worn out rubber on buttons ?.

Housing... have you noticed how Push 1 is neutral under light, push 2 isn't, it act almost like traffic sign when you point light to it....

Display... Ahh in era of retina, uhd, phablets , tablets, iphones, touchscreens they couldnt even get some decent PWM for display ...

And the most intriguing for me is why choose white colour for navigating buttons when its known for couple of years now that white\blue light can be very distracting, confusing for human mind/eye ....

Ok... i can go on, on cause there are so many bad engineer decisions on Push2 ....

The only good side of Push 2 is sampling and pads which are amazing.

.....

jcarlson0320
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Push2 build quality

Post by jcarlson0320 » Wed May 04, 2016 9:43 pm

Man I don't agree, I find it a step up form the first one in all areas. You should try for a refund dude, sorry you are not happy with it. If you can't get a refund, you can sell it on reverb.com for a good amount then re-buy push1. Also maybe Ableton will read this post and step up their game for push 3? I have had literally none of the problems you are describing.

molefonken
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:19 am

Re: Push2 build quality

Post by molefonken » Thu May 05, 2016 5:58 am

I also think it's a big step-up from push 1. I've had both, and the push 2 is sturdier, better buttons and overall feel. I find it strange that you think otherwise.

dozz
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Push2 build quality

Post by dozz » Thu May 05, 2016 11:23 am

I totally agree that it is a big step from push 1 but only regarding functionality and extra features and cause of that ill keep it. Regarding durability i'm maybe wrong time will tell , but just looking at materials they used no much hope left...
There is also nothing new regarding ergonomic design its plain copy/paste (i wish), and I see much room for improvement on that field too ..

But again , my main source of income comes from my daily job (sys.admin, all sort of tech support, you need a spaceship ?...) and i live with tech. and computer stuff since birth (buttons from push 1 reminds me of felling pressing keys on ZX spectrum 48k keyboard...) so i look at electronic devices thru eyes of techno freak and had access all my life from cheapest to most expensive tech stuff (was tech. support for someone with money for last 15. years ).
When something was new on tech. market (mobile phones, notebooks, tvs, hifi, cars, remotes .. almost anything what is powered by electricity ...) he wanted to have it and i was responsible to find it, buy it, test it, learn it to use, and then learn him..
So i'm looking it more from tech.freak perspective not so much from musician point of view, they are not so tech. demanding.

To be honest , from first time i touched push 1 i'm dreaming Push PADS with little displays in them or made from them, so you could easily name it , display clip duration, info, etc. ... possibility are endless , this only colour coding is so limiting feature at least for me with so much under used space on push..

annadyne
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Location: Asheville, NC, us
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Re: Push2 build quality, Knobs

Post by annadyne » Fri May 06, 2016 2:12 am

Just got my Push 2. Selling Push 1 to music buddy.

Thanks to this forum, I knew to test the Push 2 knobs for loose turning before accepting a unit.

When I went to the local Guitar Center, they let me test the knobs on all 3 Push 2s in stock.

In two units there were big differences knob-to-knob in how easily each of them rotated. Some were loose, others tight.
While none had shafts that wobbled vertically, some knobs turned with significantly less resistance.
Even the sales guy tried them and was surprised.

Out of 3 units I did find one acceptable. First track knob still is a bit looser than the others, but works perfectly. So far.

I also somewhat prefer the Push 1 metal knob caps. The Push 2's are a bit plasticky feeling but only in comparison. If you pop them off they do not necessarily re-attach tightly. But they should.

Also can't tell if the pots are panel-versus-PCB mounted. Board-mounted pots which are on cheaper electronics will eventually torque-rip right off if roughly handled. I hope these are panel-mounted.

Overall I'm still pleased with Push 2. And it's improvement over 1. Pads are definitely more responsive. Display is cool and helps you look at computer screen less (until you use a VST/AU with the presets not already 'Rack'ed).
And you CAN use the unit with AC unplugged.

It didn't matter that Push 1's white pads were multicolored...
improved functionality and reliability win over aesthetics any day.

Cheers!

Tarekith
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Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
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Re: Push2 build quality

Post by Tarekith » Fri May 06, 2016 5:25 am

Full teardown so you can see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs

:)

ash1
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:11 am

Re: Push2 build quality

Post by ash1 » Fri May 06, 2016 6:56 am

the push 2 is solid and built like a tank just like push 1
had mine a good few months and as good as it was when i first started using it
if you watch the teardown video you can see its built with quality
i dont have any problems with the knobs they seem pretty solid to me
having owned the push 1 all i can say is the push 2 is light years ahead of push 1 and a completley
different machine all together
im my opinon the best controller for ableton on the market its magical :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs :D

jestermgee
Posts: 3446
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Push2 build quality

Post by jestermgee » Wed May 11, 2016 7:09 am

I'm in the boat with the rest of the guys, I had Push 1 for 2 years and now with Push 2 I have almost no complaints about quality.

I guess the perception is personal but also being a tech guy and an engineer and owning more tech gear than i'd care to list I find many points completely the opposite for me:
All knobs have different tightness, they are wobbly and some of them produce feeling like they get stuck and then when you go on they are scratching either against housing or itself.
Certainly not the case on mine. While there may be some slight variance in resistance between some of them they all feel firm and do not wobble or grind against the case. The tempo is the only one that's a little "wobbly" but that is a different kind of pot from the others and not an issue IMO.

The NI Komplete Kontrol keyboard suffers the same variances in controls too with some more firm than others. While it's a little annoying it's not something I get upset about, more like "hm, that one moves a little easier than that one, fancy that" then back to earth.
jitter due to electrical noise. :roll: -> (Push 2 Firmware update v 0.51: introduces an improvement for potentiomenters, to prevent jitter due to electrical noise.)
Obviously affects some users under some conditions but have not seen this myself either. Have had this occur on other controllers and turned out to be the USB extension cable or grounding between myself and the conductive controls which was easily resolved.
On push 1 after 2 years of really abusing it, twisting knobs hard, easy without thinking from what angle to hold it they are still rock solid, on push2 after after using it only for 2 hours i dont think they will survive more than 2-3 months of easy twisting...
Many have owned Push 2 since release and yet I am to hear of any issues with the breakdown of the Pots. Issues with Pads on Push 1 saw a large number of posts from users on the forums here in regards to the LED lighting. There is very little discussion about issues ongoing here apart from the pad triggering velocity issue which I also have not experienced myself.
Buttons .. ?? Can i even call it button ? Its some old fashion calculator switch in rubbery raincoat intended to be pressed very gently just few times in their life .. I wonder is there some warranty on under used worn out rubber on buttons ?.
I know what you mean with buttons having a "squishy" feel but I don't find this to be an issue and in fact prefer the actual click from these instead of the large rubber buttons of the P1. The LED illumination is way better on these buttons and I for one like the more recessed feeling of the buttons. I am sure they are more durable than you think.
Housing... have you noticed how Push 1 is neutral under light, push 2 isn't, it act almost like traffic sign when you point light to it....
I operate in a darkened room so see no issue here. The face of P2 is metal whereas P1 was plastic and most people find the metal faceplate a welcome addition since it guards against the issues of P1 being scratched when being transported. Possibly the way the brushed metal finish reflects light creates this issue? That's more a cosmetic thing and nothing to do with build quality really.
Display... Ahh in era of retina, uhd, phablets , tablets, iphones, touchscreens they couldnt even get some decent PWM for display ...
??? Seems like you are looking for something wrong with every aspect because that seems a bit of a stretch of a complaint. The display is nothing short of brilliant for something like Push and compared to P1 is a huge advancement. It's high res, smooth operating and very functional with its use of text, overlays and colour.. Colour is a hard thing to get right with something like the Push display and take that from someone who is heavily colourblind with Red/Blue and cannot even see the difference between pads on a Launchpad that are playing/recording... I need a special modded script to change that. I have no such issues with Push2 both display and pads.
And the most intriguing for me is why choose white colour for navigating buttons when its known for couple of years now that white\blue light can be very distracting, confusing for human mind/eye ....
Thats news to me. Be happy to take in a medical review that explains the pros/cons of white/blue light being distracting, it is certainly more noticeable being higher in energy obviously but distracting, not when you have a bunch of brightly coloured pads there its not. I certainly do not find it an issue when driving at night having white lights coming at me all the time. On Push (again as someone who does not see Red light well) the while function buttons are great because I can see the arrows and signals on Push easily even with pads all lit up where on Push 1 I had to physically look at the buttons because of the really dim backlight.
Ok... i can go on, on cause there are so many bad engineer decisions on Push2 ....
I notice the complete opposite. Of course not everyone will love every aspect, you seem to not like many aspects but I do not believe much of what you have said is due to bad engineering. From the sounds of your Pots it appears you may have some manufacturing issues with your Push which is different from an engineering perspective. The design and even subtle changes seem to work for the better for most of the users here.
The only good side of Push 2 is sampling and pads which are amazing.
Maybe also:
- Better browser
- Better LED backlighting for pads, more uniform and more vibrant
- More robust overall package
- Graphical icon display of control elements for live instruments
- More control and feedback for live instruments
- Better overall display in general
- Mixer display
....

If I were to complain about anything it would simply be the lack of management around ordering/labelling controls for VSTs (but that is more of a Live thing), the LED and display suffer badly when not connected to a PSU, though a non issue for me and the touch strip is not as good IMO as the last push because the metal face seems to cause erratic behaviour if you touch it when using the strip sometimes.

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