session workflow when recording more than one clip

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ambientidm
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by ambientidm » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:08 pm

It's a flaw with the record button in note mode. I session mode it works as it should but as soon as you go into note mode it fails.

scheffkoch
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by scheffkoch » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:43 pm

...in 9.7 you can record into arrangement while recording clips in session view: shift+record button on push activates arrangement record and then you can use the record button (without shift) to record clips in session view...
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AliMc
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by AliMc » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:11 pm

Stromkraft wrote: You never tried adding automation with Record Session automation in… set to "All tracks" in preferences instead of armed? Because when I do this a recording audio track does not stop and my automation is added to the drum rack track.
I don't have Push any more to check, but as I remember, automation did record as expected.
The problem was if I wanted to add some extra drum hits to a looping drum pattern, or use Repeat to add in some hats, then I would have to use the session record button.
I think Ableton's intended workflow for Push was to create a bunch of session clips with note mode and drum rack mode, then to switch to session mode, hit arrangement record and trigger clips to make your arrangement.
It didn't quite seem possible a year ago to do both at the same time (improvise more notes or drums while recording an arrangement).

I am currently using an Electribe as my MIDI sequencer and a TR8 along with the Electribe for drums.
This setup gets me a bit closer to what I want to achieve, but I do kind of miss the way you can work with drums and MIDI from Push.
The Push was definitely a lot more expressive, particularly when it comes to drums.
I probably will pick one up again when this behaviour has changed.

AliMc
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by AliMc » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:16 pm

scheffkoch wrote:...in 9.7 you can record into arrangement while recording clips in session view: shift+record button on push activates arrangement record and then you can use the record button (without shift) to record clips in session view...
I didn't see your post before I posted mine. That would make a big difference to what I'm trying to do. :)
I think the problem with armed tracks would still have to be changed though.

Stromkraft
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:20 pm

AliMc wrote: It didn't quite seem possible a year ago to do both at the same time (improvise more notes or drums while recording an arrangement).
This is actually a completely other kind of problem as I see it, at least if we're talking about the same track recording clips from Session as well as live playing.

9.5 changed much of this though, so I think you'd like some of the new behaviour. I do think Live behaves somewhat unpredictably still.

Did you make your view known to Ableton? They need to hear stuff like that.

I'd like to see Ableton support Arrangement mode control with at least Push 2, but of course they should complete Session mode workflow first.
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Stromkraft
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:24 pm

scheffkoch wrote:...in 9.7 you can record into arrangement while recording clips in session view: shift+record button on push activates arrangement record and then you can use the record button (without shift) to record clips in session view...
This was not so already in 9.5?
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scheffkoch
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by scheffkoch » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:50 pm

...it was possible before 9.5 and then broken...glad it's working again!!!...
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n9
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by n9 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:45 am

The arrangement record options make no difference. When you tap a recording clip all other clips recording stop recording and start looping. Also I don't wish to record into arrangement anyway... I'm recording clips in session intentionally to be reused.

Tapping a clip that is recording should only switch that one clip into playback. That's the way it works on screen and that's how it should work with Push.

Stromkraft
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:06 am

n9 wrote: Tapping a clip that is recording should only switch that one clip into playback. That's the way it works on screen and that's how it should work with Push.
I agree it should work the same. Told Ableton?

Meanwhile these settings also affect how Push behaves as is how mine are set:

Image

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n9
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by n9 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:43 pm

I have told ableton. Upthread this was recorded as a bug.

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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by n9 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:51 pm

My setting are the same. I've been experimenting for about a year with these settings and wrote up my work around above as well. I'm not sure what we're talking about now.

I started the thread to report the issue and to see what others thought about the way this works. Like maybe it's a good workflow for some. I'm not sure why you are posting these things implying that there are alternate settings that change the behavior seemingly without trying then yourself first. It has muddied the discussion in my view. Unless there is something that I have missed, after enough hours spent to give up and appeal to the community, there is no way to mitigate this behavior.

If you have a way to do this please post it. If you think there should be a way we agree. Problem is I don't think there is a way!

Stromkraft
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:09 am

n9 wrote:My setting are the same. I've been experimenting for about a year with these settings and wrote up my work around above as well.
You didn't flesh out your workaround more than using another MIDI controller. You didn't share your experiment. Never mind that though. I'm 100% with you on this tap thing.
n9 wrote: I'm not sure why you are posting these things implying that there are alternate settings that change the behavior seemingly without trying then yourself first.
Implying? I DID try one possible work flow based on AliMC's problem, not yours, and I shared my result. These were conflicting with his report. We, AliMC, I and others, seem to be describing multiple issues that seemingly overlap, which would explain why this can be different.

What seems clear is that there is a bug or multiple, but it's not entirely clear what actions are affected related to recording. I merely tested and shared one of these. I didn't test your tapping as this is clear and you're absolutely correct I think. A tap should just select the track. I'm all for that.

The preferences are important to note as they do and should affect how related recording problems work and what the user reasonably can expect. That's likely also with the bug fixed. Though not with your tap on track issue.

I'm sorry but discussions sometimes make problems expand into related territory. That's what happened here.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:53 am

As for the OP problem I just got 2 conflicting results:

With an audio recording running, started from Push (1), I was able to repeatedly start and stop a recording on another track without the audio recording stopping. However, when I did the same in my drum rack track, the recording did stop. I need to study this more in detail.

The Live 9 user manual in 27.14 Push Control Reference > State Control Section (for Push 1) says this about the top row buttons:
"When working with tracks, the leftmost eight buttons will either stop clips or mute or solo the corresponding track, depending on which of the three rightmost buttons is pressed (Stop, Mute, or Solo)."
My interpretation is then that a recording track should indeed not stop unless you press down the stop button at the same time. The track selection function without a modifier does seem intentional even though this isn't mentioned specifically in the manual.

The Push 2 doesn't seem to have these State Control Buttons and I'm not sure what the corresponding methodology is on that.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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n9
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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by n9 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:43 pm

There are three workarounds:

1. Hold the Stop Clip button and press the Track Button (under the display) and then press the clip button again to get it rolling. This is not ideal as it is two hands and there is an interval where the clip is not playing which in my case results in an audible drop out.

2. Press another, empty, clip button, which will start recording there and then press the first clip button again to get it playing. This can be done pretty instantly and with one hand, but you need to delete the extra clip at some point, which is two handed.

3. Map foot controllers to the play toggle for the tracks in question -- if you tap the foot controller to holt recording it won't stop other clips. This is what I am doing now, but I only have three buttons on my foot controller and I often make mistakes while playing as to which one I press... it would be better to use the Push.

4. (not really a workaround) use the session view with a mouse. Session view will not interrupt the recording of other clips when you press play on a recording one.

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Re: session workflow when recording more than one clip

Post by n9 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:47 pm

I apologize for being brusque, I certainly was and shouldn't have been. Your reply didn't (to my eye) seem in response to the issues raised at the top of the thread. I get what you're talking about after a more careful read. I guess I'm just eager for a clear bug report and (hopefully) a resolution to my problem. I agree that the other issues described should also be fixed.

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