Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

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jlgrimes
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:38 pm

WillThaArtist wrote:I'm an Ableton user who does not have either the Push or Jam but if any of you do, what would you consider would be the better option to use with Live?

If you want to stay in Live,

Push2.


You would most likely need some type of custom script to use Maschine Jam in Ableton which NI probably makes but as a Maschine MK1 user you have to remember to recopy files each time you update Ableton as Ableton don't support Maschine in house.


That said NI's Maschine script is pretty good but Push is more intuitive.

It becomes generic controller vs dedicated Ableton controller as each update to Ableton usually adds some new features to Push.

Buleriachk
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by Buleriachk » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:48 pm

Yes, Push 2 is by far the better investment if you already own a Maschine controller. (NI Software is fantastic, however, so there is that... and well integrated with all their products.)

I sent Jam back, even though I got it at a discount, since I already have a Launchpad Pro (which has scales with the new update, and Arsenal at NativeKontrol.com has a Note mode which configures the array like push. I do use a Mikro for portability..

If Jam had a screen, it would be worth it, I think, without the screen, there are better options available.

That said, it is well designed if you need its capabilities - for live performance, Jam does allow the use of launching clips in an 8x8 matrix, and faders for tweaking. (But a Launch Control XL will allow you to tweak away as well.. :)

If I had money to spare, I would have kept it....

bobbyduracel
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by bobbyduracel » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:26 pm

starving student wrote:I don't know about that 96%, the screens on the push 2 alone and what they convey is worth way more than 4%, then consider that push without the screens is still more capable than the jam regarding ableton.
also unless you need those size pads on the mk2 in particular then I don't see what the mk2/ maschine offers in the way of sampling and sample editing that would be worth getting into when ableton is going to be your last stop anyway. I agree on the 'focus' part though and the distractions but imo getting a jam, an mk2, and traktor would be a whole lot of distraction especially since the jam is not working all the way smooth yet and the maschine software is going through some growing pains right now.
I would really love unlimited funds, as there are specific things about push 2 I miss (now that I've sold it). However, for live performance, I really only needed Push to trigger my clips and control levels of channels (including mute, solo, etc). Jam does that well enough.


My argument with the used $200 MK2 on eBay is simply that you get a modular setup to suit the needs of the day, and you end up with 16 full size pads (more fun to jam beats than the smaller pads), while also gaining the screens the Push 2 has. The Mk2 screens aren't as pleasant to look at, but they give you the same info as Push 2 provided.

I still assert the Push 2 device itself seems higher quality, and is clearly more integrated for Ableton, than Maschine. Someday I may even sell ALL of my Maschine boxes and go to the Push 3 (or whatever else comes out). I only mentioned traktor earlier bc the DJs in the room want to know how things integrate. I did not mean that the OP should buy it specifically for any reason.

Since this post I've tried numerous times to run traktor and Maschine together with Link via my S8 and a second thunderbolt IO, and the results aren't impressive. It reminds me of the bridge. Unstable once you add large sessions and multiple tracks. So my opinions are constantly evolving too. Ableton is a brilliant tool. Push is also brilliant.

I still have a hard time with the way Maschine Jam implemented their version of clips in Maschine. Maybe I'm Ableton at heart ;)
#livefullycharged

Chingy
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by Chingy » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:21 am

I own both. Push 2. Hands down.

starving student
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by starving student » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:16 am

bobbyduracel wrote:
starving student wrote:I don't know about that 96%, the screens on the push 2 alone and what they convey is worth way more than 4%, then consider that push without the screens is still more capable than the jam regarding ableton.
also unless you need those size pads on the mk2 in particular then I don't see what the mk2/ maschine offers in the way of sampling and sample editing that would be worth getting into when ableton is going to be your last stop anyway. I agree on the 'focus' part though and the distractions but imo getting a jam, an mk2, and traktor would be a whole lot of distraction especially since the jam is not working all the way smooth yet and the maschine software is going through some growing pains right now.
I would really love unlimited funds, as there are specific things about push 2 I miss (now that I've sold it). However, for live performance, I really only needed Push to trigger my clips and control levels of channels (including mute, solo, etc). Jam does that well enough.


My argument with the used $200 MK2 on eBay is simply that you get a modular setup to suit the needs of the day, and you end up with 16 full size pads (more fun to jam beats than the smaller pads), while also gaining the screens the Push 2 has. The Mk2 screens aren't as pleasant to look at, but they give you the same info as Push 2 provided.

I still assert the Push 2 device itself seems higher quality, and is clearly more integrated for Ableton, than Maschine. Someday I may even sell ALL of my Maschine boxes and go to the Push 3 (or whatever else comes out). I only mentioned traktor earlier bc the DJs in the room want to know how things integrate. I did not mean that the OP should buy it specifically for any reason.

Since this post I've tried numerous times to run traktor and Maschine together with Link via my S8 and a second thunderbolt IO, and the results aren't impressive. It reminds me of the bridge. Unstable once you add large sessions and multiple tracks. So my opinions are constantly evolving too. Ableton is a brilliant tool. Push is also brilliant.

I still have a hard time with the way Maschine Jam implemented their version of clips in Maschine. Maybe I'm Ableton at heart ;)
the jam is not a bad idea, but native instruments should have fixed everything with maschine before sending their focus to venture off in another direction. I think It would have even been better for the jam to be developed on a better foundation than just being thrown out there and having the focus divided.

push Is just gradually getting better and better...... and better.

bobbyduracel
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by bobbyduracel » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:50 am

I've been without the Push 2 controller for a few months now & a lot has changed. I switched from Traktor to Serato, specifically for the DJ808 controller - because it has high quality platters. I missed control over my tracks and hated lugging the technics to a show for a mixed-genre set.

That swap led me into the hardware drum machine on the Dj808, which led me down the rabbit hole of the AIRA gear.

Now, every time I attempt to run Maschine alongside the Serato and AIRA setup, it's obvious that the program is too CPU intensive (unless you bounce all to audio & only apply minimal live knob twists/processing).

In all of my tests, the Ableton setup is more stable. Even running LINK on Maschine seems to hit the CPU inappropriately. Ableton doesn't even hiccup.

So, after a ton of experimenting, I am unloading the Maschine Studio box, my S61, and my K10Ultimate license & I'm just going to relegate my software portion of the live setup to Serato and Ableton.

Hence, I'll be picking up another Push 2 this spring. For now, I'll keep the Jam and my S25 & add a Mikro for the pads... The Jam may be the next thing to go. Time will tell.

ULtimately, the hardware seems to be MUCH better for the live setup. Go figure. I guess I'm still figuring this all out.

Well, if anyone would like Maschine Studio, S61, or the K10U license bundle... I'm all ears! They go on eBay soon.

I hope the OP is getting on well with the chosen unit. I like Jam well enough, even inside of Ableton, but I hate how Jam handles clip launching... And the AIRA MX1 gives the faders, and some knobs, from the APC40 flow, so it's going to be a kickass pair beside PUSH!
#livefullycharged

K_Da
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Re: Maschine Jam vs. Push 2

Post by K_Da » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:39 pm

(Can you help me out with the Maschine Jam in Ableton ?)
bobbyduracel wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:39 pm

I own both controllers. Here is the basic rationale:

For a few less dollars, you lose the better pads, screens. You don't really lose much control over Ableton Live, because the mapping is really nice with Jam already. Jam can control racks, synth parameters, etc. It's a toss-up. I own both! That said, with the recent Ableton mappings, I decided to spend a few hours in Ableton without the Push, just to see if Jam gave me any headaches. It did not.

Hi,

Your post is old, but i feel you gave him the best answer of the thread.
Personally, i'm trying to gather info on the Jam, so as to decide to buy it , or not.

I don't do much electronic music.. I am a multi-instrumentalist, namely with MIDI instruments, and I came into Ableton, from Logic, where i used to write more singer-songwriter stuff, as well as symphonic music&soundtracks.
I use Vienna Instruments libraries, and now.. also Komplete 12.

I want to use the Jam as my :
. Ableton-grid controller, for clips, scenes..etc..
. Transport controller and mixer, in Arrangement & Session views
. Step Sequencer within Ableton
. launching and controlling Looper and specially VSTs (other than the ones included in Ableton)
I don't use samples much, as i play almost everything live with the MIDI instruments.
(still, using the Jam as an instrument, in the scales mode, looks interesting. That leads me into my doubts which you will, hopefully, clear.

1.
Can we use the Jam to browse VSTs in Kontakt (or Komplete Kontrol) .. or in any possible way in Ableton ?
And.. Can you use the Jam to operate with Scales (Melodic Pad) mode with VSTs...other than the ones in Ableton Suite ?
Say.. play the Rickenbacker bass in Komplete, or a violin, or whatever..

2.
is there any vital Maschine software feature that is not accessible with the Jam, in Ableton, that a guy playing my style of music would miss ?
(i would like to avoid opening Maschine as a external instrument in Ableton)

3.
Can you switch/toggle between devices (blue hand).. or just operate the one selected by the mouse ?

I hope you can help me out

Thank you

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