Push2DisplayProcess

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JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:23 pm

Last night, a session with the Push preparing a live gig and realized it's pretty much useless to take the Push on stage.
Constant audio drop outs with only 8 tracks and 4 returns. (MBP, 2,3 GHz Intel Core i5, SSD drive, 16 GB ram)

There is no solution for this problem so the only thing is probably upgrading to a faster expensive laptop. Quadcore MBP or fast windows laptop.
Disappointed about this and won't recommend a Push 2 to anyone with a duo-core MBP.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:59 pm

JAMM wrote:Last night, a session with the Push preparing a live gig and realized it's pretty much useless to take the Push on stage.
Constant audio drop outs with only 8 tracks and 4 returns. (MBP, 2,3 GHz Intel Core i5, SSD drive, 16 GB ram)

There is no solution for this problem so the only thing is probably upgrading to a faster expensive laptop. Quadcore MBP or fast windows laptop.
Disappointed about this and won't recommend a Push 2 to anyone with a duo-core MBP.
I actually think this detail represents some really woolly thinking on Ableton's side. I'd imagine it should in theory be possible to offload the CPU by letting the GPU do the job it's supposed to be doing. Few machines can't drive an external display with their GPU, even those with integrated graphics.

Yes, that would cause inconveniences for those already using external displays like I do, but the price is now paid by the CPU usage instead. I'd go for this in a heartbeat if I had a 2.

Ableton should device a mod pack that could allow for this to be done and offer this as a service as well. You'd need a graphics port on the Push itself, if the USB can't be used. It would be worth it I think.

Alternatively they need to optimize the Push2DisplayProcess! Machine code if needed. That's how music apps used to be programmed.

If there indeed is a graphics card in the Push 2 that drives the internal display then what does the Push2DisplayProcess actually do and why is it using so much CPU power? It makes no sense to me. It's not a touch display so there's only image data flowing to it and obviously trough the USB port.

I suggest you Push 2 owners that are suffering from this CPU drainage to get together and politely and sternly ask Ableton to address this issue.

I'm so glad that I didn't update and I'm very happy over the build quality of the original Push.
Make some music!

jomtones
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:24 pm
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by jomtones » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:07 am

Not sure the best course of action to raise this as a group with Ableton. They got a bug-fix ticket thing people can vote on?

My usual experience with hardware manufacturers is "they have no fucks to give", but it would be nice if Ableton could prove me wrong on this one.

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:20 am

Yep this isn,t working. In a next version they should implant a processor in the push which drives the display.
I actually think this detail represents some really woolly thinking on Ableton's side. I'd imagine it should in theory be possible to offload the CPU by letting the GPU do the job it's supposed to be doing. Few machines can't drive an external display with their GPU, even those with integrated graphics.
an audio output and harddrive which makes it a real standalone unit which would be brilliant....
Like Abletons formel partners are making now: http://www.akaipro.com/mpc/
And didn't they developed the Push 1 which don't have problems?
Maybe Ableton should pay them a vist again how to make a unit which works without structural design problems.

I suggest you Push 2 owners that are suffering from this CPU drainage to get together and politely and sternly ask Ableton to address this issue.
Don't think they can or gonna solve this problem because off the push2 hardware setup or....limitations. (Using the CPU off the host Laptop)
But hopefully they can make a sort off "simple view" on the push display which drains less CPU off the MBP.
On a livegig I don't need to see all off the 5000 + parameters of everything.

In the meantime Ableton.....put a remark on the website that you need at least a quadcore MBP to run a Push2 without problems.

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:26 am

My usual experience with hardware manufacturers is "they have no fucks to give", but it would be nice if Ableton could prove me wrong on this one.
Also my experience...problaby they concentrate on next products so no time and not interested to solve the current problems.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:49 pm

jomtones wrote:Not sure the best course of action to raise this as a group with Ableton. They got a bug-fix ticket thing people can vote on?

My usual experience with hardware manufacturers is "they have no fucks to give", but it would be nice if Ableton could prove me wrong on this one.
I'm not sure either, but I think this issue is quite serious. As always in these situations I think it's best for all parties to be humbly listening, and not only talking from one's own perspective, so there can be understanding.

As Ableton users, we're not merely users in many cases, we're part of the same project and while we shouldn't attempt to implement some kind of command and deliver relationship, serious issues should be communicated on.

Yes, we should vote on this** as well as patiently communicate our concerns, if we have them, directly to Ableton. To do this as a group, if only by knowing there are others, only reinforces how important the issue is.

My experience since Live 9 was released is that Ableton indeed is a listening company. I have the greatest respect for them and what they do. I also realize that many of the demands customers may have are unrealistic, sometimes almost pathetically so, but the solution for that is open communication. Something I feel Ableton support always have succeeded with in communication to me. This only reinforces my respect for them.

**anyone have a URL?
Make some music!

Nekz
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 8:52 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Nekz » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:41 pm

It would make sense that the next step for Push is to follow the same path as Akai did.

With a all in one integrated hardware-software experience.

A customised Ableton Live that works flawlessly within the hardware and no computer and sound card in the middle.

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:32 pm

How much % of the CPU of a MBP does a Push2 uses in comparison to a push1 ?

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:24 pm

Nekz wrote:It would make sense that the next step for Push is to follow the same path as Akai did.

With a all in one integrated hardware-software experience.

A customised Ableton Live that works flawlessly within the hardware and no computer and sound card in the middle.
Are you saying that Akai sports software synthesizers in their new hardware? And audio effects and mixing to the level where you can finish a complete (pseudo)mastered track within the box? That's not what I've heard.

Effectively you're asking that Ableton make a $2000 quadcore computer, and a $100 (?) audio interface, and a Push controller with an internal display and makes this available at what price?

I see a number of problems with this idea. For starters where to find the balance with trade-offs that makes an attractive product without bloat and an inflated price? Would this controller still be useful for people needing more power than what this Super Push could deliver? Because how could Ableton satisfy a wide range of differing needs so they could get the volumes? How long time would this take to develop and build, even if they have been at it since Push 2? There are many more…
Make some music!

Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:31 am

Nekz wrote:It would make sense that the next step for Push is to follow the same path as Akai did.
With a all in one integrated hardware-software experience.
A customised Ableton Live that works flawlessly within the hardware and no computer and sound card in the middle.
I don´t think so.
Even though the integration of M4L into Live brings a lot of benefits in general,
the fact that many desired solutions are done by external M4L-programmers shows clearly
a path of "outsourcing responsability".

...if you know what i mean... :)

*S.

jomtones
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:24 pm
Location: Tokyo
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Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by jomtones » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:09 am

JAMM wrote:How much % of the CPU of a MBP does a Push2 uses in comparison to a push1 ?
20 - 30%, on my 2015 MBP

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:30 am

you had a push 1 to compare that with a push2?
Thinking off downgrading from a push 2 to a push1 for livegigs if it's less CPU hungry.
Stupid, but maybe than i can do a live gig without audio dropouts.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:29 pm

JAMM wrote:you had a push 1 to compare that with a push2?
Thinking off downgrading from a push 2 to a push1 for livegigs if it's less CPU hungry.
Stupid, but maybe than i can do a live gig without audio dropouts.
You'll improve your chances yes, unless a number of other things…
Make some music!

soundklinik 33
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:39 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by soundklinik 33 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:23 am

I just checked my task manager and surprisingly I discovered that PUSH-2 drains 10-13% CPU just being idle.
There is NOTHING on the screen. Blank....but pulling 13% CPU :roll:
Lenovo X-220 laptop.
That is somewhat alarming...I don't think it does that on my regular PC, which has a dedicated (budget) video card. But I must check.
iPad-AIR 2, Lenovo x220-laptop, Squarp Pyramid, Elektron Digitakt

jomtones
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:24 pm
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by jomtones » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:44 am

soundklinik 33 wrote:I just checked my task manager and surprisingly I discovered that PUSH-2 drains 10-13% CPU just being idle.
There is NOTHING on the screen. Blank....but pulling 13% CPU :roll:
Lenovo X-220 laptop.
That is somewhat alarming...I don't think it does that on my regular PC, which has a dedicated (budget) video card. But I must check.
I'll be surprised if you find it's much different. To me, it's scandalous, and really limits what I can do with Push.

I'm abroad right now, but if I was back in the UK I'd be considering selling the Push 2, to downgrade to a v1.

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