Push2DisplayProcess

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soundklinik 33
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:39 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by soundklinik 33 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:13 pm

Actually YES, I get the same CPU ~10% on my main PC too. I just didn't see it... :lol:

Ableton = 0%.........Push 2 = ~10-13%

I thought it was the laptop...
iPad-AIR 2, Lenovo x220-laptop, Squarp Pyramid, Elektron Digitakt

Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:51 am

Push 2 gives access to sample accurate realtime processing of audio files.
Within the latency of your audio driver.
That´s beyond simple Midi controllers.

How could be expected to do that without CPU-usage?
Just because it is called "DisplayProcess" does not mean
it´s all about graphics.

I do not say there can´t be improvements done,
but to compare that tasks with midi controllers is
simply incompetent.

*S.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:15 am

Stefan Jantschek wrote:Push 2 gives access to sample accurate realtime processing of audio files.
Within the latency of your audio driver.
That´s beyond simple Midi controllers.

How could be expected to do that without CPU-usage?
Just because it is called "DisplayProcess" does not mean
it´s all about graphics.

I do not say there can´t be improvements done,
but to compare that tasks with midi controllers is
simply incompetent.
This does not at all explain why this CPU usage would be active to the extent, which multiple users have described, when there is no such processing. Even in a wait state the load would seem much too high. And also Push 1 also gives "access to sample accurate real time processing of audio files" as all that happens inside Live. The visuals is the difference.

Yes, the Push2DisplayProcess could certainly be about tying together commands and visuals, but you don't know that for a fact. If you did I would expect you to have shared your experience and knowledge on the matter.

It certainly possible this was the price of admission for the goodies in Push 2 and that it would have been impossible to do it in another way given the context. Personally I think this performance price is too high and should have been openly declared. That's how I feel anyway.
Make some music!

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:49 pm

Push 2 gives access to sample accurate realtime processing of audio files.
Within the latency of your audio driver.
That´s beyond simple Midi controllers.

How could be expected to do that without CPU-usage?
Just because it is called "DisplayProcess" does not mean
it´s all about graphics.

I do not say there can´t be improvements done,
but to compare that tasks with midi controllers is
simply incompetent.
It's a fact that Push2 uses up a lot off CPU from the host computer.
I didn,t knew that and as a Ableton user sins 2004 i bought a Push2.
After a few weeks realizing that i clearly had to buy a new and much faster MBP to run the Push without problems.
Prices MBP's: 2700 euro and up so....hmmm okay.

In the meantime adjusting....simplify livesets for livegigs from 25/30 to 8 tracks and delete a lot off plug-ins.
MIDI AND VST's turn into audio clips, reverbs in eco mode, clips not in HQ mode and if possible in "beats" mode.
Tried freezing tracks but the soundquality after freezing tracks sucks.
At home the problems are annoying but on stage in front off a audience it's a NO go.
Use the Push2 as a clip launcher now because if turning the encoders....BAM....audio dropouts, also sometimes the tempo drops.
Everybody who's doing live gigs knows how important reliable equipment is.
Using a BCR2000 for tweaking effects now which by the way is still a brilliant controller for around 135 euro.

I keep the Push, also because i can't return it for "vague audio dropout" reasons but the thing is that Ableton should put information about the hardware requirements on the website. I'm still a fan off this company and everything what surrounds it but they have to be transparent about this.

Mark Williams
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Mark Williams » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:50 pm

Where is this fact?

I personally think your barking up wrong tree here, quick to blame push, when it could be anything, including your computer, or interface/soundcard, or even pushing the sample rates & buffers too hard. Om my PC with I5 cpu 16GB ram, I quite easily run 16 tracks plus with VSTs without any dropouts latency or errors. The only time I ever got anything like that, was when I tried using 96khz rate, so dropped down to 44.1khz/48khz and all good, no issues, using a Roland MX-1 as my soundcard, but using a focusrite 2i2 I did experience those problems, so maybe look into that.
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, Jupiter Xm Alesis Multi Strike Pad

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:04 pm

Not quick blaming because i contacted ableton support first about this, just like others here with the same problems.
And its a fact because Ableton support told me that push2 takes off CPU off the host.
Also not blaming Push 2, blaming ableton for not being transparant about the hardware requirements.

nothing wrong with MBP/settings/not using a audio interface/tried all the settings.
use this program 13 years intensively so i know more than enough about settings, computers and audio problems.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:17 pm

Mark Williams wrote:Where is this fact?

I personally think your barking up wrong tree here, quick to blame push, when it could be anything, including your computer, or interface/soundcard, or even pushing the sample rates & buffers too hard. Om my PC with I5 cpu 16GB ram, I quite easily run 16 tracks plus with VSTs without any dropouts latency or errors. The only time I ever got anything like that, was when I tried using 96khz rate, so dropped down to 44.1khz/48khz and all good, no issues, using a Roland MX-1 as my soundcard, but using a focusrite 2i2 I did experience those problems, so maybe look into that.
What are you on about? This is about people seeing in Activity Monitor or similar that this particular Push 2 process uses up a considerable portion of the CPU power. They may need to use more CPU than you…
Make some music!

Mark Williams
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:37 am

JAMM wrote:Not quick blaming because i contacted ableton support first about this, just like others here with the same problems.
And its a fact because Ableton support told me that push2 takes off CPU off the host.
Also not blaming Push 2, blaming ableton for not being transparant about the hardware requirements.

nothing wrong with MBP/settings/not using a audio interface/tried all the settings.
use this program 13 years intensively so i know more than enough about settings, computers and audio problems.

So your not using an audio interface? If not then that is probably why your getting audio dropouts. As i mentioned I only use an i5 which is about 3 years old, and I dont encounter these issues. Problem with these setups is, there are way too many variables for companies to allow for.
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, Jupiter Xm Alesis Multi Strike Pad

Mark Williams
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:42 am

Stromkraft wrote:
What are you on about? This is about people seeing in Activity Monitor or similar that this particular Push 2 process uses up a considerable portion of the CPU power. They may need to use more CPU than you…
My machine is nowhere near top of the range PC, in fact its only a HP Pavilion 550na 3 years old, yet I don't have the issues some of you have, and I run some pretty cpu intense VSTs inc Diva, Omnisphere, in fact the only VST that ever gave me trouble is Zynatiq's Adaptiverb, which made my cpu usage jump 50%.

I'm just saying that in troubleshooting problems people sometimes overlook the obvious, I have seen people blame hardware for audio dropouts, when they not using the correct drivers, i.e using windows MME/WDM drivers instead of the manufacturers or AISO etc, even a graphics card driver not correctly installed can have a negative impact on the overall system balance.
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, Jupiter Xm Alesis Multi Strike Pad

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Mark Williams wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
What are you on about? This is about people seeing in Activity Monitor or similar that this particular Push 2 process uses up a considerable portion of the CPU power. They may need to use more CPU than you…
My machine is nowhere near top of the range PC, in fact its only a HP Pavilion 550na 3 years old, yet I don't have the issues some of you have, and I run some pretty cpu intense VSTs inc Diva, Omnisphere, in fact the only VST that ever gave me trouble is Zynatiq's Adaptiverb, which made my cpu usage jump 50%.

I'm just saying that in troubleshooting problems people sometimes overlook the obvious, I have seen people blame hardware for audio dropouts, when they not using the correct drivers, i.e using windows MME/WDM drivers instead of the manufacturers or AISO etc, even a graphics card driver not correctly installed can have a negative impact on the overall system balance.
While all that may be very true*, everyone else is not using your machine nor your setup, nor do they make music in the way you do. If you want to share a success story with your hardware choices and setup I'm sure many would welcome that. Do that so others can learn.

But however this might be it doesn't change the fact that Push 2 needs to use quite a bit of one's CPU power, that one might like to use for something else, like running another plug-in, whereas the Push 1 does not.



* I just got out from the terrible feeling my quadcore i7 machine was for inexplicable reasons starting to indicate it was as insufficient as my previous Core2Duo. When I finally bit the bullet and did a clean installation of macOS Sierra the shit hit the fan and just to copy back my music and my music collection was dead slow.

I ran some tests and found that after I cleaned out this M500 1 terrabyte SSD was slower than my old hard disk. Trim wasn't active, so I realised I might need to activate this. After some investigations I updated the firmware (with Sierra installed) and left the drive in idle condition, which activates automatic garbage collection (not the same as trim), for about 9 hours.

After this I have writes at near 400mb/s and reads above that. A fast disk is actually important for real time operations like music. I'm going to activate trim after some more research. So yeah, hardware must be in tip top condition.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Mark Williams
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:02 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
* I just got out from the terrible feeling my quadcore i7 machine was for inexplicable reasons starting to indicate it was as insufficient as my previous Core2Duo. When I finally bit the bullet and did a clean installation of macOS Sierra the shit hit the fan and just to copy back my music and my music collection was dead slow.

I ran some tests and found that after I cleaned out this M500 1 terrabyte SSD it was slower than my old hard disk. Trim wasn't active, so I realised I might need to activate this. After some investigations I updated the firmware (with Sierra installed) and left the drive in idle condition, which activates automatic garbage collection (not the same as trim), for about 9 hours.

After this I have writes at near 400mb/s and reads above that. A fast disk is actually important for real time operations like music. I'm going to activate trim after some more research. So yeah, hardware must be in tip top condition.
Yes I have as of last week I just installed a SSD in my pc. Wow makes such a huge difference, best upgrade i have ever done, makes Windows flow so smoothly. :)
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, Jupiter Xm Alesis Multi Strike Pad

soundklinik 33
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:39 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by soundklinik 33 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:47 pm

Mark Williams wrote:
Yes I have as of last week I just installed a SSD in my pc. Wow makes such a huge difference, best upgrade i have ever done, makes Windows flow so smoothly. :)

I have SSD for a few years now, (has programs only), I have RME-9632 sound card, all my samples, banks, etc are on other HDDs all@7200 rpm and I show 8-15% CPU just idling opened Push 2.
My laptop is the same, external sound card and 10-15%CPU idle. Both run windows 10/64bit.
Would really like to see a snapshot of your Task manager/Processes/ with Push2DisplayProcess :lol:
iPad-AIR 2, Lenovo x220-laptop, Squarp Pyramid, Elektron Digitakt

Mark Williams
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:36 pm

soundklinik 33 wrote:
Mark Williams wrote:
Yes I have as of last week I just installed a SSD in my pc. Wow makes such a huge difference, best upgrade i have ever done, makes Windows flow so smoothly. :)

I have SSD for a few years now, (has programs only), I have RME-9632 sound card, all my samples, banks, etc are on other HDDs all@7200 rpm and I show 8-15% CPU just idling opened Push 2.
My laptop is the same, external sound card and 10-15%CPU idle. Both run windows 10/64bit.
Would really like to see a snapshot of your Task manager/Processes/ with Push2DisplayProcess :lol:
Will do as soon as I can get my leg under my studio desk, had a spiral fracture of my ankle last friday, so has to be kept raised with no weight whatsoever, so am struggling with normal life, so going a bit stir crazy here.
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, Jupiter Xm Alesis Multi Strike Pad

JAMM
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by JAMM » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:34 am

mark williams wrote
So your not using an audio interface? If not then that is probably why your getting audio dropouts. As i mentioned I only use an i5 which is about 3 years old, and I dont encounter these issues. Problem with these setups is, there are way too many variables for companies to allow for.
No difference between an external(firewire)audio interface and the native MBP audio out.

Mark Williams
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Push2DisplayProcess

Post by Mark Williams » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:43 pm

JAMM wrote:
mark williams wrote
So your not using an audio interface? If not then that is probably why your getting audio dropouts. As i mentioned I only use an i5 which is about 3 years old, and I dont encounter these issues. Problem with these setups is, there are way too many variables for companies to allow for.
No difference between an external(firewire)audio interface and the native MBP audio out.
Depends on drivers...... But Im not upto par on mac...
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, Jupiter Xm Alesis Multi Strike Pad

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