Push 1 to Push 2 transition, experiences?

[Stromkraft]

How do you enjoy the Push 2?

So you people that have done the transition and are loving your Push 2 as much as your original Push, would it be possible for you to list the work flow possibilities you now enjoy that weren't available in the original?

With a focus not only on Simpler loops, but the whole production thing, like external synth control and recording, native and plug-in synth programming, automation, arrangement recording, creating new scenes in Session and new sections in Arrangement and finding your way around your compositions. What about the composing process in itself, creating new ideas on the fly, recording audio, integrating new plug-ins and tools. mixdowns and even mastering?

What about actual expressive playing on the pads, parts programming and recording new lines as you go? Finding your devices and their parameters?

In short, how have Push 2 improved your music making?
How was the transition process for you?

Actual differences?

It's not uncommon to see people writing something akin to it's like a day and night difference, but I've seen very little describing what the actual differences are with regards to work process. When you're deep into the original Push, differences seem somewhat insignificant and not necessarily worth the price, in which I'd include the Push 2 display process running on your local machine.

But now I'm asking you. Can you please share your experience? It's OK if you can only answer more generally and not in list form, but if you can share something, that would be very useful I think.

My focus points for a Live controller

These are my most important focus points for using any controller and without leaving it (at least as little as possible):

• Coming up with new ideas quickly
• Programming native synths and plug-ins
• Adding new devices and automating these in a musical way
• Recording new parts, i e playing expressively and be able to move quickly keeping the oversight of the big musical picture
• Editing new parts when needed without getting out of the flow
• Arranging new ideas directly to Arrangement view, via Session view or not
• Mixdown prep by recording audio, flattening, grouping, bussing and so on
• Finishing mixdowns
• Making a pseudo-master for presenting new material

I asked a similar question one year ago when the Push 2 was new. Now, most migrators have had plenty of time to find new ways of working and be more clear on what they like with this new tool. Let's hear it.

And please, keep any critique of the Push 2 you might have to a minimum. There are other threads for that. I'm interested in the differences, which could include any downsides in short, and specifically the upsides of making music with the Push 2. Feel free to compare Push 2 also to other controllers you are or have been using if you like.

[jestermgee]

I have to say your views are very methodical.

I can't answer half of that in any detail because Push is not my only main controller. I use it just as much as I do my KK keyboard or my MCU so I tend to jump all over the place for different things.

What I can say though is for sketching ideas it isn't really leagues ahead of the P1. To me the pads feel much better and the addition of the extra coloured buttons and coloured screen do honestly help with identifying tracks and elements quickly. I'm also colourblind (colours with Red) and I find the way the pads and colours work on P2 much better.

The display also helps when using Live specific effects (and probably instruments too but I rarely get in-depth with them). The icons are great for quick glance control and because more information/letters can fit on the display it makes tags much easier to read at a quick glance. Downside though is you really must have the plugpack connected if you have any light at all.

One of the biggest improvements using the display is navigating your library. One thing I have always struggled with is finding a sound when I need and now after spending over 18 months building my own personal browsing library I can dial in sounds irrespective of the fact they are Live instruments, samples or a VST and I can browse and load these quickly on the Push. The display was much more limiting on P1 and often I wouldn't bother.

The Mixer section and display is also very nice and now the ability to select clips in Arrangement and edit from Push is very, very welcome. Because I use an MCU I do almost everything with channels, sends and IO routing on that out of years of habit anyway.

If Push was my only real controller I would say P2 is a good and logical upgrade over P1. I bought it up on day 1 simply because of the trade-in deal they had which I really thought was a great campaign, good deal and a good cause.... I'm fortunate to not have to worry too much about the overall cost and the way Ableton created a buy back campaign and donated the returned units I thought was great so I was happy to support that. Probably not an important thing for some people but certainly helped my decision.

Now, if they had not have done that for us P1 users and I had my KK keyboard at the time I probably would not have bothered and really wouldn't be too miffed.

All I can say from my experience is almost everything you love from P1 is there (with the exception of PTX integration now which I didn't even consider at the time) but it's like the concept idea has now been tightly refined and polished. Is it really enough to make someone essentially buy the same thing over again? That's a personal decision really.

[Stromkraft]

To me the pads feel much better and the addition of the extra coloured buttons and coloured screen do honestly help with identifying tracks and elements quickly. I'm also colourblind (colours with Red) and I find the way the pads and colours work on P2 much better.…

Thanks for that highly informative answer, jestermgee! What I gather from it are:

• The conceptual idea of Push has now been tightly refined and polished.
• The pads feel much better.
• The way the pads and colours work on P2 is much better. [I'm assuming that might apply also to people that have no kind of colour blindness]
• Specifically the display makes certain things easier
  • More information can fit on the display which makes much easier to read at a glance
  • Navigating your library is easier
  • You can find and load found items quickly
  • The ability to select clips
  • The ability to edit clips
  • The Mixer section gives a good overview

Does that sound like a fair summary of what you meant? Is my interpretation of what you wanted to put across correct?

Could you elaborate how you find the pads improved? Do they feel more expressive or consistent? Just more nice and inviting to touch? Less errors made?

I know I have a hard time playing on non-weighted keyboards, even as I'm not a piano player. It affects my timing.

[Tarekith]

The pads on Push 2 are not as smooth as Push 1, more of a matte finish than a glossy one if that makes sense. I find that makes them feel better when playing, your fingers dont slide at all. They're also (for me) a lot more sensitive at lower pressures, I can barely touch them and get consistant low velocities. All around they just feel more responsive.

The aluminum top plate is much sturdier feeling too.

One other benefit of the new display is that certain parameters now have distinct graphics, like Operator's routing, EQ types, or the filter type chooser. So each page of synth now looks unique compared to the plain old generic numbers on Push 1. Makes it a lot easier at a glance to see what page you're editing when jumping around between instruments and effects.

For me the biggest difference going to Push 2 was just the new layout of the other buttons though. Things like Add Track and Add Effect make more sense where they are now. Ditto having another 4 way navigation pad for things like Page left and right and Octave up and down. On Push 1 I always felt like it was taking me a couple seconds to remember where I was on the controller, what page and mode I was in. Push 2 was instantly more intuitive on that front thanks to the new layout, the bright button labels, and of course the extensive use of color.

[jestermgee]

That's a pretty good sum up.

I assume for other users the updated colour scheme works much better. The track select buttons on Push 1 were just all amber, P2 they mimic the actual track itself so when you have more than 8 tracks it's much easier to tell where Push is in the project just from a small glance. The actual pad LED lighting (to me) at lower intensities is much more consistent and "precise". Take the Launchpad for instance (MK1 version) it has green, red and orange. I had to get a special script from another Live user that allowed me to modify the values because I literally could not see a clip that was in record mode, just cant see the slight difference from orange to orange+red. The use of while backlight for buttons over red is great for users like me.

In terms of how the actual pads are better, the feeling of the pads as Tarekith said feels a little nicer than the initial Push and again, for me also, I find that after making the adjustments to the sensitivity I can play piano and string pieces quite nicely. I got on fine with the pads on P1 but did seem to have issues that to get light touch I had to ramp up the sensitivity which then made moderate playing sometimes too harsh.

Tarekith summed up a lot of neat features that just help make it feel more refined. The extra navigation and track buttons are great and I personally like the flush mounting of the buttons with a nice click. Initially I thought they seemed a little spongy but I do like the feel of them now.

I do have one complaint though. The touch strip in my opinion was much better on P1. I was so use to using the tip of my finger on P1 for quick bends or scrolling through a drum kit but seems on P2 I need to use more of the flat part of my finger as it's not as sensitive to just work off the tip. My KK S61 keyboard though has very nicely sensitive strips. Additionally I find if I touch the metal surface of Push and the TS with my finger it is even harder to operate.

[Tarekith]

Yeah, the Touchstrip would be my only downside as well. I don't find it worse than Push 1, but I do need to make sure I'm putting my finger more towards the right side of it to work. Too close to the LEDS on the left and it doesn't register my finger. Works fine when I do it right, but sometimes I go to use it without looking and takes me a second to work out why it's not doing anything.

[Stromkraft]

For me the biggest difference going to Push 2 was just the new layout of the other buttons though. Things like Add Track and Add Effect make more sense where they are now. Ditto having another 4 way navigation pad for things like Page left and right and Octave up and down. On Push 1 I always felt like it was taking me a couple seconds to remember where I was on the controller, what page and mode I was in. Push 2 was instantly more intuitive on that front thanks to the new layout, the bright button labels, and of course the extensive use of color.

That's very interesting and enlightening, Tarekith. Thank you.

It does sound as if the greater benefits of Push 2 are likely discovered in use. Which appears as well designed concepts to me.

[jlgrimes]

I am a Push 2 owner who never had Push 1, so I probably wont be much help.


But my main uses for Push are:

1. Drum Rack Performances. Programming Drums is a lot easier with the Push especially when using the Step Sequencer.
2. Quantize controls (eg. being able to Record with swing, and easily access the quantize settings is a plus).
3. Session View to Arrangement View recording. I think this is one of my biggest uses for push is triggering my Scenes and clips to program them in the arrangement view.


Areas I haven't really delved into:

1. Sampling/Chopping (I rarely do this)
2. Using Melody/Scale Mode (I prefer the keyboard).
3. Browsing Sounds (I typically use sounds outside of Ableton)

[Stromkraft]

I am a Push 2 owner who never had Push 1, so I probably wont be much help.


But my main uses for Push are:

1. Drum Rack Performances. Programming Drums is a lot easier with the Push especially when using the Step Sequencer.
2. Quantize controls (eg. being able to Record with swing, and easily access the quantize settings is a plus).
3. Session View to Arrangement View recording. I think this is one of my biggest uses for push is triggering my Scenes and clips to program them in the arrangement view.

Thank you for sharing this anyway.

And thank you all that answered. I think I have more clear idea about the Push 2 now, so I'm glad I asked.