Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

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Merzat
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Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by Merzat » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:10 am

Plugged in my Push 2 with the Push logo appearing. It connected to Ableton but the screen remains blank. All of the pads and lights are lit up with the program responding to the commands on Push 2 yet nothing displays on screen.
I've tried every solution in online forums and Ableton Tech support but no screen.
-The usb is tighly plugged in on both ends.
-I have Ableton 9.7.1
-Updated GPU, USB ports, Windows, as well as other devices
-The usb power settings are all tweaked for high power
-Checked the midi preferences and deleted all the duplicate push 2 inputs
-I have plugged the Push 2 into every single sub port on my desktop and it only works with the USB 3.0 port

Any solutions?

Tarekith
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by Tarekith » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:05 am

Probably best to contact support@ableton.com at this point.

Merzat
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by Merzat » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:23 pm

Yeah i'm hoping it doesn't take too long for a response

miyaru
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by miyaru » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:01 am

Is your graphic card capable of OpenGL 3.0 or higher? Could be a problem.

Mine ain't and often I have to deselect and select the push 2 again in the prefs menu to get it working.

Also decoupling usb while live is running causes problems, I start Push2 before Live and switch it of after Live is stopped.
Greetings from Miyaru.

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Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

Stromkraft
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:06 pm

miyaru wrote:Is your graphic card capable of OpenGL 3.0 or higher? Could be a problem.

Mine ain't and often I have to deselect and select the push 2 again in the prefs menu to get it working.

Also decoupling usb while live is running causes problems, I start Push2 before Live and switch it of after Live is stopped.
Are you saying Push 2 uses the graphics card for the display image? I think this is not so.

If it is, then one must ask why the displayprocess in the CPU takes so much power.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:08 pm

Merzat wrote: -Checked the midi preferences and deleted all the duplicate push 2 inputs
Do a screen dump of these.
Make some music!

TekMonki
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by TekMonki » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:37 am

Shall start my own thread and/or do a bit more forum(s) searching myself if need be, but figured I'd jump on this one for now as I'm having pretty much the same problem and that maybe crowd-sourcing would go a bit quicker and help someone else out at the same time if needed. Not complaining, just noting - :) - but I've already opened a ticket with them and am getting somewhat slow responses on it - which is "ok" as it's just annoying at this point and resolved 99% of the time after a reboot, but all the same, would be nice to have it working all the time every time without needing to save/close everything and reboot.

Anyway, I'm on Windows 10 (64bit), latest 9.7 Live update, all Windows updates, and NI Komplete Audio 6 latest driver. And yeah, 'tis Push 2.

Detailed email and list of troubleshooting and such that I sent to Ableton support when opening ticket is:
I've had said annoying issue for some time now, believe after Live 9.7 update is when it started. Sorry for the long message, but I've tried to be thorough in my troubleshooting and detailing of before bugging you guys, all the same hope it's helpful to narrow down potential causes and/or help anyone else that may be experiencing the same thing.

Below noted in form, but just in case you need more info -
  • - Computer is approximately year old HP laptop running Windows 10 Enterprise with enough SSD disk space and 8GB RAM.
    - Has latest Windows and HP updates downloaded and installed/applied.
    - All Live, currently 9.7.1, and Push 2 updates have been installed/applied as well. No other notable machine/Windows errors, though once in awhile Live itself will lock up, become non-responsive, and need to be "End Task"'ed. This resolves Push 2 issue less than a quarter of the time by doing so.
I haven't found the root of the Live freezing and non-responsive issue, and seems to solely be Live, no issues with other apps, but all the same will detail the Push 2 issues (and troubleshooting of them) as maybe they are related, but also maybe not, as Push itself doesn't seem to cause Live issues or crash it, just simply stops responding itself. Though could possibly be Live causing the Push 2 non-response of course. Anyway . . .

After stepping away for more than 30-60 minutes from computer, Push 2 is no longer functioning or responsive with Live, though all same track lights are lit as if it would be responsive on both the pads and screen. Computer is not sleeping, but powered on the whole time via docking station No background/"inactive" Windows processes of note, or at least that I'm aware of nor see pegging Windows in Task Manager when troubleshooting. Push 2 is connected via the factory Ableton USB cable, and connected to power the whole time. Have tried alternate USB cables to no avail/difference.

Troubleshooting and/or resolutions tried after Live becomes non-responsive:

Loaded a new song, reloaded the current song, or closed and re-opened Live
-
Push will change, but no longer be responsive and will show Push logo, then go to blank screen. Sometimes stays at the Push logo.

Turned Push off/on
-
Usually will show Push logo, then go to blank screen. Sometimes stays at the Push logo.

Tried selecting different MIDI and Audio tracks
-
No change. Though on occasion it will take 60 to 120 seconds or longer and display the track selected via mouse, though still not sending/receiving messages when pads pushed or knobs turned.

Removed/re-seated USB on both Push and Laptop (both docking station and laptop USB ports) -
No change

Removed/re-seated power
-
No change

Checked Live’s Preferences settings
-

Under Link-MIDI section MIDI has -

"Push2" for Control Surface under 1st item, with Input being "Ableton Push 2" and Output being the same. Note there is also an "Ableton Push 2 (Port 2)" listed as a selectable item under both Input and Output, but changing to those options makes no change with Push 2 responsiveness, nor changes to or adds that in the “MIDI Ports” section.

Setting all Push 2 options to "None" and powering it off and back on per the Ableton KB “Push 2 won't load beyond logo screen (Win)” does re-load the preferences, but doesn't resolve the initial non-responsive issue. Also note, after a laptop reboot, “Ableton Push 2” is the Input/Output setting listed, though “Ableton Push 2 (Port 2)” is still available in the drop-down list - and “Push 2 (Live)” have never seen listed as an option, though it is noted in the aforementioned KB.

Turning off Push 2 power and/or disconnecting USB, the Input/Output items turn dull gray (and go back to bold gray/white when powered on or USB reconnected, though again, not otherwise displaying track’s info or responsive).

Under "MIDI Ports" in the same section -

"Input - Ableton Push 2 (Port 2)" is in red (regardless of USB or power) and "Track" is "On" while "Sync" and "Remote" are "Off". There is no “Ableton Push 2” listed, just “Ableton Push 2 (Port 2)”, though again the Input/Output alternative options are showing up in Control Surface as mentioned above.

“Output - Ableton Push 2 (Port 2)” is in regular grey color with Track, Sync, and Remote all set to “Off”. Turning any of the three to “On” turns “Ableton Push 2 (Port 2)” to red, though obviously doesn’t change Push 2 itself in regard to pads, screen, or responsiveness.

Checked Windows (10) Device Manager
-
Ableton Push 2 is listed under "Sound, video and game controllers" with no error/splat. Attempted “uninstalling” Ableton Push 2 from it and re-scanning and letting Windows “reinstall” Ableton Push 2. No change results in doing this.

Re-loaded current song, new song, and blank template
-
No change.

Closed and re-opened Live -

Only sometimes resolves the issue.

Rebooted laptop -

Resolves issue 99% of the time, with Live settings listed as “Push2” for "Control Surface", and "Ableton Push 2" for both Input and Output. If issue still not resolved after reboot, setting all Push 2 options to "None" and powering Push 2 off and back on per the Ableton KB “Push 2 won't load beyond logo screen (Win)” does resolve the issue.

One other thing of potential note, is that if I stay at the computer doing other things besides using Live or Push 2 for a while, largely just web surfing or watching Ableton Youtube videos ;), and then go back to the song/project I’m working on later via hitting “Play” on Push 2 or in Live, the track is very “slow” and “crackly” implying Live is too bogged down to play the track and Push 2 is equally slow to respond - to resolve this, I go into Live Preferences, the Audio section, and click on Hardware Setup (I’m using an NI Komplete Audio 6 with up to date drivers) and change the “USB Buffer” from either 2 ms to 3 ms, or 3 ms to 2 ms, and Live/Push 2 then work again fine at proper speed with no crackling or slowness with Push 2.

Ok, and that's all up to date methinks. Oof! Apologies again for the long message, but hope it's helpful at least.

- - - -
And here's how far troubleshooting has gone via the ticket so far after about a week. Their first response to all of the above was . . .
From checking the status report that you sent, I can see that Windows has recognised two instances of the Push 2.
  • Please close Live and disconnect the Push 2 completely

    - Then launch Live again
    - Connect and power on the Push 2
    - Check whether there is one or two instances of Push 2 showing in the MIDI ports section of Live's preferences: Ableton Push 2 & Ableton Push 2 #2
If so, then you need to completely uninstall the drivers for Push 2 - all instances, via Device Manager and then reinstall just one instance, before launching Live again.
I had already noted in the original ticket/email noted that I'd already found and tried to resolve that, but all the same tried it again to zero change in the issue. I replied to ticket with that and the response was . . .
Thanks for getting back to me. I also need to get you to update your graphics driver:

Firstly close Live and disconnect Push 2 from your computer. Then you need to update your graphics card driver as follows:
  • - Open Device Manager.
    - Expand the "Display Adapters" Entry.
    - Right click on the graphics card, select "Properties" and "Details".
    - This will give you the exact name and model of your graphics card, eg NVIDIA GForce 8400 GS.
    - Search directly on the manufacturer's website for the very latest driver for that device and install it.
Note: Windows updates and some PC manufacturers offer system update utilities which handle various updates at once. These may not always include the exact graphic drivers however. It's always recommended to install the graphics drivers directly from the specific manufacturer's website as above.
Once the driver has been updated, reconnect Push 2 and start Live.
Updated Ableton that vid drivers were up to date, and had even tried the Intel version, but Windows/Intel referenced the "custom" HP ones as being the latest and greatest up-to-date ones.

And that's the latest and greatest. Welcome thoughts/ideas/etc. And shall update thread if I find something out and fix it myself, or via the ticket I have with them.

Thanks,
TekMonki

TekMonki
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by TekMonki » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am

Oh, and if useful as well . . . screenshot of Preferences "Link \ MIDI" showing "error".

Image

soundklinik 33
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by soundklinik 33 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:28 am

Hey tekmonky, I had some similar problems while back...

Try this, disconnect all your gear, especially Arturia. Leave only audio card komplete 6.
Reboot and see if all the other hardware is gone,= not listed as options in midi preferences.

Then connect push. Power it on and enable it in Ableton preferences. Try if it works alone WITHOUT Arturia.
If it works plug in Arturia but into midi port of komplete 6, NOT USB. That is if Arturia has midi out.
You don't have to enable Arturia in preferences, it works as if K-6 had keyboards built in.
Hope it works.
iPad-AIR 2, Lenovo x220-laptop, Squarp Pyramid, Elektron Digitakt

Stromkraft
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

TekMonki wrote:Oh, and if useful as well . . . screenshot of Preferences "Link \ MIDI" showing "error".
IMAGE]
Thanks, now, reading the manual it says the Push 2 doesn't need any setup, so I'm not sure in the value of seeing your preferences. I cannot say what happens if one attempts to change anything in preferences, but I'd assume that disconnecting and reconnecting the Push would return everything to default anyway.

soundklinik 33's advice appear to be useful. There could also be cable problems, so make sure you use a fully working cable.
Make some music!

TekMonki
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by TekMonki » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:22 pm

soundklinik 33 - shall give that a try and see what happens. I left Push 2 on, Ableton loaded, and didn't mess with it for about 12 hours (nor laptop, went out to the clubs instead, haha). When I tried it just a few min ago, Push 2 was lit and displaying as normal, but not responding. I then went into Live's Preferences, Audio, hit the Hardware Setup button, and changed the KA6 USB buffer from 3 to 2, and Push started responding again. Was something I noted in my ticket with Ableton (and at the end of my first post here). Now that works about 2 times out of 10 with Push issue, but does pretty much always fix it when Live starts being "slow" and "crackling".

Anyway, I haven't written off KA6 as being the overall culprit, but beyond the Live issue and "fix" just mentioned, I've yet been able to nail it down to KA6 being the actual culprit as the Push issue will still happen when using the HP built-in Realtek soundcard whether using the docking station or not.

Again though, shall try your recommendation next time Push freezes up and report back.


Stromkraft - You're indeed right, Ableton sets up Push/Push 2 by default pretty much the moment you plug it in to your machine and/or power it on. However, the pic I posted is showing that sometimes, at least for me, it will add a second "Push 2" in the input/output options. And especially, notice that under MIDI ports in that pic, "Input" is in red. That's something Live is doing, implying an error though I'm not clear on the meaning, and not how I colored said pic.

TekMonki
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by TekMonki » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:51 am

Somewhat minor update(s) - went to go grab some food and run a couple errands. Left Live as-is and working fine after doing a USB Buffer "ms" change in KA6 via Audio/Hardware Setup as mentioned in post about 2 hours ago.
I left Push 2 on, Ableton loaded, and didn't mess with it for about 12 hours (nor laptop, went out to the clubs instead, haha). When I tried it just a few min ago, Push 2 was lit and displaying as normal, but not responding. I then went into Live's Preferences, Audio, hit the Hardware Setup button, and changed the KA6 USB buffer from 3 to 2, and Push started responding again. Was something I noted in my ticket with Ableton (and at the end of my first post here). Now that works about 2 times out of 10 with Push issue, but does pretty much always fix it when Live starts being "slow" and "crackling".
Coming back now, Push was once again lit as if it was ready to rock, but non-responsive to hitting pads, both within Ableton, and Push not showing any actual interaction (as in pad lights responding to touch). Though a couple minor notes to that, which has been the case the whole time as well, in that Push is 'half" working - namely seems just the instrument pads themselves are non-responsive. However, hitting Play button on Push starts it in Ableton, and hitting it again stops it. Also turning the knobs, or the "pads" just below the knobs that select tracks, or sliding the pitch bend slider all get a reaction in Live. If I then turn Push off and and back on, the non-responsive pads start working again.

Note again that this is typically about 2 times out of 10 the "resolution" after leaving Live and Push alone and on for a few hours. Typically it's just ALL of Push that is non-responsive, and the only fix is to reboot the laptop.

And soundklinik 33, my dumb brain took a closer look at heading down the path that you mentioned, but found that Arturia is ONLY USB, and KA6 has MIDI, but doesn't have an USB connections on it but it's own. May just go to point of running ONLY KA6 and Push 2 via USB for a while, which equally annoying, but may narrow it down or not to USB and worst case improve my "piano" playing skills that suck on Push currently. :lol:

And again y'all, much appreciate the crowd-sourced troubleshooting for real. As you can obv read in my mini-novel length post(s), I've been up, down, through, and around on this annoyance, and yes, I'm sure it will turn out to be the dumbest "oh fucking duh" thing on the planet :lol: hahahahaha. But besides myself, hope it turns out useful for someone else if they end up down this path which it seems a few people have.

metastatik
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by metastatik » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:09 pm

TekMonki wrote:However, the pic I posted is showing that sometimes, at least for me, it will add a second "Push 2" in the input/output options. And especially, notice that under MIDI ports in that pic, "Input" is in red. That's something Live is doing, implying an error though I'm not clear on the meaning, and not how I colored said pic.
That's quite odd. Push 2 has two sets of ports. The first are named Ableton Push 2 and are used by the Push2 control surface script. The second are its user ports meant for use in User Mode. Their name depends on the OS you're using. On Windows, they're named Ableton Push 2 (Port 2). On a related note, the first set of ports are intentionally hidden in the MIDI Ports section of Live's MIDI preferences. This is to disallow incorrect settings being made for those ports. Both sets of ports will always be listed in the input/output drop-down menus in the control surface section though as there is no reason to hide anything there.

Considering that the MIDI controller part of Push 2 (which consists of everything but the display) uses a class compliant driver, it's highly unusual that its two sets of ports only show up sometimes. I'd suggest double-checking that.

In regard to ports showing up red (or orange depending on the skin color you're using), that would typically be due to the ports being in use by some other application. On Windows, the ports of controllers that use class compliant drivers can only be used in one application at a time. That's an easy fix. Simply close all applications aside from Live and power cycle the controller.

None of this has anything to do with Push 2's display, but I hope it helps clarify what is going on with its MIDI ports.

TekMonki
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by TekMonki » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:21 am

Thanks for the info and bit of clarity on that man! So, just to tinker with that a bit, since Push was as usual lit and displaying, but FULLY unresponsive . . . I left the others alone and only changed Input under Preferences\MIDI to "none". Push then stayed on (it's plugged in to power), but all lights and screen went blank, as suspected and as they would normally. I then changed Input back to "Ableton Push 2" and it stayed blank, only thing lit up being the screen still. I then went in to Audio, and clicked the Hardware Setup button and changed Komplete Audio 6 "USB Buffer" from 2ms to 3ms and Push lit back up and now all knobs/sliders/pads are responsive and controlling Live but for the "instrument" pads. If THEN I power Push off and back on, it works again.

So, basically still "hmmmmmm", but is making me think there's somehow a potential USB conflict between KA6 and Push 2. I'd guess at the Windows/Device manager, but for sure I am still not.

TekMonki
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Re: Push 2 Connects too Ableton but screen stays blank

Post by TekMonki » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:19 am

Latest update = I left Live running and Push on for several hours as I normally do to have a song loaded and ready for my moto ride inspiration to get thrown down on/test troubleshoot Live/Push annoyance, and as usual Push was frozen. This time though, I simply pulled the USB cable out of KA6, gave it a second, then reconnected it. Took a second or two and there was a bit of crackling at first, but Push started working after that, no other changes or powering off/on needed.

So, not a whole fix, but easier than rebooting the whole machine and/or trying the various powering off and on of Push, changing "ms" settings for KA6 etc if this is a consistent "fix". Also, one thing of minor note, is that the track that record was already armed on got turned up to +6 and panned hard right when I did that KA6 power on/off. Will keep an eye on that when I try to/need to this next time to see if this is the "fix" to then troubleshoot, but interesting as well if KA6 somehow does volume/pan tweaking as well for some reason.

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