Push 2 encoder resolution

Discuss Push with other users.
Post Reply
JJupiter
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:31 pm

Push 2 encoder resolution

Post by JJupiter » Sat May 13, 2017 12:23 pm

I'm considering buying a Push 2, and would like to know the the resolution of the top encoders. Are they just 7-but, or are they actually higher resolution? I'd like to use it to control certain parameters in VST's that really benefit from (say) 14-bit resolution (using Ableton's Absolute (14-bit) MIDI mapping). Could anyone with a midi monitor check if the encoders generate single or double CC's?

I pray they are high-res...
JJ

JJupiter
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:31 pm

Re: Push 2 encoder resolution

Post by JJupiter » Wed May 17, 2017 2:37 pm

Since no response here, I asked Ableton support.

The short answer is: NO


Here is the transcript...

---------------------------------
About the top encoders of Push 2: Are they mapable to VST controls using Absolute (14-bit) resolution? In short: are those encoders high-res?

------------------------------------------------

Hello Joris,

thanks for contacting Ableton Support.
In order to answer your question, the encoders' mode can not be changed.

In general, physical encoders work in one of these modes.

An 'absolute' encoder has a physical start- and end point. With the normal 7bit encoders, you get 128 steps between those points, with 14bit encoders you get 16384.
An absolute encoder's value represents the value of the mapped parameter (with 0 being the minimum, 127 (or 16383) being the maximum value).

Both versions of Push have endless/relative encoders. The values you get from them contain two pieces of information: the direction you turned the encoder and the speed. Given the 7bit resolution, you have 63 steps in each direction (0 means 'not turned', thus (128 - 1) / 2 = 63.5).

A relative encoder's value represents the change to be applied to the mapped parameter (the scaling of which is determined by Live itself).
The mode (Relative 2's Compliment in our case) defines how to interpret the value: in one mode, 63 might mean 'very fast to the right', in another it might mean 'very slow to the left'---that's why the other modes don't work for manually mapping Push's encoders.


If the encoders could be set to 'absolute', 14bit would make total sense. You'd have much more fine-grained control of your parameters.
They are always relative, though.



I hope this information was helpful.


Please don't hesitate to get in touch with any further questions or concerns.

All the best,

Benedikt
Technical Support Agent

----------------------------------

Hi Benedikt,

Thanks for your response.

OK relative & absolute, I get it.
The Push encoders are relative, fine.
But if I would control (say) Diva's Filter Cutoff with them (can I? Using mapping the parameter?), would they map high-res (14-bit) or low-res (7-bit)?

Regards,
Joris

----------------------------------

Hi Joris,

thanks for getting back.

You can map the encoders to e.g. the filter cutoff when you are in Push's User Mode.
Please have a look at the following article for a more detailed information about it:

Using Push's User Mode for custom MIDI mappings


When you map the encoders, they will always be in 7 bit. (Relative 2's Comp.)


Please let me know if this was helpful.


All the best,
Benedikt
Technical Support Agent


-----------------------------------

Hi Benedikt,

So in short the answer is: No (no high-res encoder support for mapping to VST plugin parameters)

That's a shame...

Thanks for your time though,
Regards,
Joris

metastatik
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Push 2 encoder resolution

Post by metastatik » Wed May 17, 2017 4:53 pm

You normally wouldn't use MIDI mapping to control the parameters of a VST (or any device) with Push 2. You'd normally use Push 2's Device Mode. In Device Mode, you'll have relatively coarse control over parameters by default and very fine control when Shift is held. How fine exactly? I couldn't say offhand, but I can't imagine wanting to have any finer control.

Even if you were to use MIDI mapping though, the fact that the encoders are 7-bit isn't relevant as they're relative encoders. That means that, unlike absolute encoders, they have no explicit range, they simply increase/decrease. This lets whatever you're using them to control dictate the resolution. In Live, relative encoders typically achieve relatively high resolution, at least when compared to 7-bit absolute encoders.

JJupiter
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:31 pm

Re: Push 2 encoder resolution

Post by JJupiter » Wed May 17, 2017 5:08 pm

So if a parameter in VST (e.g. Diva VCF1 Frequency, range 30.00-150.00) is controlled (in Device Mode) by a top encoder, and I'd do en full sweep in one measure, would it become
[30.00 30.48 30.96 31.56 etc]
or
[30.00 30.00 31.00 32.00 etc]?

Cheers, J*

metastatik
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Push 2 encoder resolution

Post by metastatik » Wed May 17, 2017 5:30 pm

Close to the first one if Shift wasn't held down. If Shift was held down, you'd get something like this:
[30.00, 30.01, 30.02, 30.03, etc]

Post Reply