Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

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Mr D
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: E.U.

Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by Mr D » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:51 pm

Hi folks,

Imagine i have two tracks in Live:

A drum rack track and a VST synth track.

Is there any way to make Push lock to the drum rack and ignore what happens on the screen?

So i mean: first i have the drum rack track selected and that's also what Push shows. Now i want to lock Push to this, so if i click on the synth track in the DAW, Push won't also jump to showing that track. It'll keep showing me the drum rack track.

I fear it's not possible but i'm hopeful!

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by blof_eld » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:19 am

I don't think there's a way to do it, which is ridiculous.

Such a simple thing to make playing live with Push so much better (or even possible), and you can't do it.

Mr D
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: E.U.

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by Mr D » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:51 am

It's probably to do with how the thing is designed.

It basically just mirrors the interface, in a translated form.

If it could do what we wanted, it would need to have two interfaces running concurrently, which presumably isn't possible.

You can do it with a Novation Launchpad for example, but that's because (i suspect) it connects to the DAW in a different way (only via midi).

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by blof_eld » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:57 am

Yeah, it makes sense when you put it that way.

Still a bit irritating though.

Mr D
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: E.U.

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by Mr D » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:01 pm

I agree!

I guess wait for Push 3?!

ShelLuser
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Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by ShelLuser » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:47 pm

What a load of nonsense replies.... :?
Mr D wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:51 pm
Imagine i have two tracks in Live:

A drum rack track and a VST synth track.

Is there any way to make Push lock to the drum rack and ignore what happens on the screen?
It depends on what you want to ignore, I assume starting (or recording) clips and all that?

That could be easy...
  • Press control + , to enter your settings.
  • Select the "Record Warp Launch" tab.
  • Disable 'Select on Launch'.
This should keep your focus on one track while you're doing stuff in the other. Do note: if you create a new midi clip for example then yah, focus shifts. But not if you start any of those.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Komplete 12.
Blog: SynthFan

jestermgee
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Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by jestermgee » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:13 am

ShelLuser wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:47 pm
What a load of nonsense replies.... :?
Mr D wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:51 pm
Imagine i have two tracks in Live:

A drum rack track and a VST synth track.

Is there any way to make Push lock to the drum rack and ignore what happens on the screen?
It depends on what you want to ignore, I assume starting (or recording) clips and all that?

That could be easy...
  • Press control + , to enter your settings.
  • Select the "Record Warp Launch" tab.
  • Disable 'Select on Launch'.
This should keep your focus on one track while you're doing stuff in the other. Do note: if you create a new midi clip for example then yah, focus shifts. But not if you start any of those.

Not sure your understanding what these users (and many others over the last 5 years) are asking.

What they want is the ability to "lock" push to something so you can still click around in Live and adjust things but have Push remain on a track or device so you can monitor it. This becomes especially desirable when you want to make adjustments to something like the Master channel while you are also playing or editing a track. Because Push auto-follows what is active on screen there is no way to have it lock to something where it would be VERY useful to have this especially when you move to Arrangement mode Push loses a lot of its usefulness.

ShelLuser
Posts: 3620
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by ShelLuser » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:21 am

jestermgee wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:13 am
Not sure your understanding what these users (and many others over the last 5 years) are asking.
Not quite but it makes sense now, thanks for your comments!

Considering that I'm late to the party I doubt that I'll find something useful but if anything then my bet would be on M4l which might be able to disable & re-enable Push somehow. There were calls in the APC40 interface which could trigger this, which obviously tells us nothing about Push but.... time to fire up my LOM.navigator later on and have a look see :)
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Komplete 12.
Blog: SynthFan

ShelLuser
Posts: 3620
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by ShelLuser » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:06 pm

Now, it's waay too early to draw conclusions here and I've only just begun "hacking" the Push 2, but even so there's something I'd like to share:

Image

Here you see a M4l device I made years ago (this pre-dates Live 9) called the LOM.Navigator and as its name implies it allows you to explore everything within Max for Live's 'Live Object Model', see also this link. Now, the advantage of my device over the online documentation is that I'm retrieving the data straight from the application(s) and interfaces as-is.

Meaning? My device has the potential to show properties and functions which for one reason or the other haven't found their way into the documentation yet. And don't be fooled here: this has happened before, years ago my LOM.Navigator showcased a (working) color property even though the official documentation didn't include it at that time.

(edit) It did in the past, and it still does so. If you look at the previously linked Live Object Model you'll notice that live_app is of type Application and directs to one class only: View. In reality however you can also access control surfaces through live_app: the path "live_app control_surfaces 0" is a thing and it'll point to your first control surface (one out of 6 in total). That's something undocumented :P

Anyway, what you're seeing here is a list of the functions that are available to us (as well as some properties, in the screenshot I checked out the Application property) and I think you can agree with me that 'toggle_lock' and 'unlock_from_device' sound very promising. If these also work is something I can't answer right now because I'm not going to fire up random functions before reading the Push cheat sheet a little more carefully.

But based on what I'm seeing so far definitely convinces me that there's a lot of undocumented (?) functionality which is available to us and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a device lock turns out to be possible, but... only using Max for Live :)

Anyway, first things first. I need to read up some more about Push and it's "Live driver", but I also really need to update my LOM.Navigator and give the user interface a big overhaul so that it's more on-par with Live 10 (you can probably tell it was made on Live 8 :mrgreen:).
Last edited by ShelLuser on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Komplete 12.
Blog: SynthFan

S4racen
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Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by S4racen » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:06 pm

The CrossFire script for the Akai Fire by nativeKONTROL has a lock to track feature... No saying it's possible with Push 2 just that it's possible...

Cheers
D

ShelLuser
Posts: 3620
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:08 pm

Image

I DID IT, I DID IT, I DID IT!

I hope you guys can read that but in the yellow bar at the bottom it says: "Push2 Locked to Max Audio Effect" and said M4l effect is none other than my M4lScope which I'm currently working on to make it "Push compatible" 8) Take note to some of the scope values: Buffer: 4, Samples: 128, Size: Normal.

Now look at what happens on my Push display after I switched to the (empty) first track (which is an audio track):

Image

Notice the "No device" message in the upper left corner (in yellow, which is also the color of my track)? So what are those blue controls doing there? And don't these values look a little familiar? 8O

So yes, Push 2 can be locked onto a specific device by using the toggle_lock function found under the main control_surfaces class. Now to think of a good M4l patch to make this work... I wonder if I could make this "Push compatible", I need to think this through.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Komplete 12.
Blog: SynthFan

ShelLuser
Posts: 3620
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Stop push from following what's happening in the main DAW?

Post by ShelLuser » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:52 am

So I build a test M4l patch and it "works" but I did discover a few issues which I need to iron out.

My idea is to set up an audio effect patch which has a live.button that can be midimapped, for example to a footpedal connected to the Push (be sure to use usermode). Then you select a device, click the pedal and your Push is locked in place. So far this works.

The problem though is that the toggle_lock doesn't necessarily toggle between locking & unlocking; when a device is locked and you use this function while having another (unlocked) device active then that device will now get locked in place. It's easy to work around this (I simply store the id of the locked device and compare the id of the selected device against it) but it would get sloppy (basically I'd lock and immediately unlock the new device).

The 'unlock_from_device' function did nothing for me so far because of an invalid argument which I need to figure out first. My assumption is that I can feed it the id of the device it is locked to, but that's a guess and I need to investigate further. During the week is currently not a good time for me to program (also because I don't have access to my Push) but I hope to release a working beta next weekend.

This is the state of the device so far:

Image

I know looks don't say anything but hey... this problem is going to get solved "soon".
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Komplete 12.
Blog: SynthFan

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