Make Push 2 wireless

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rap429
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:24 am

Make Push 2 wireless

Post by rap429 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:07 pm

I know there was some discussion three or four years ago about ways to make Ableton Push 2 wireless. Nothing seemed to be a good working option. Any modern solutions?

jestermgee
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Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by jestermgee » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:06 am

Question really is have you seen any wireless solutions for USB?

Considering the speeds needed for bi-directional USB and the requirement for low latency, probably not a thing that will happen. Also, you may get rid of the wire between hardware and computer, but you still need a cable for power.

Designing something like Push to work via a wireless network connection would be the way to go, but not sure of the demand to have something liek Push be wireless.

estolad
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:36 pm

Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by estolad » Thu May 02, 2019 2:09 pm

Will be Push 3 then. Internal battery in combination with wireless charging could be an option. Not sure how much difference there would be between wifi and bluetooth and which one would be better in regard to latency and energy consumption. Ableton Link seems to work ok though (no experience). Doesn't have to be a big battery like a laptop I assume so it could fit in a push form factor (maybe a bit higher or bulkier somewhere.

blof_eld
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by blof_eld » Wed May 22, 2019 12:19 am

The display needs fast data, just midi with no display could work over bluetooth though.

You could do it with wifi, the Push could connect to your wifi or create its own wifi network if there is no existing wifi network available. The latency would be an issue though.

Wireless is something I wouldn't want with the extra cost/complexity, and I would never use it.

KuzmaKuznetsov
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Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by KuzmaKuznetsov » Fri May 31, 2019 9:59 pm

Hi there! I try to research this theme too. I have found this device: http://cdm.link/2006/06/wireless-midi-i ... 80m-range/
that hypothetical may be suitable, but it needs to be tested.
It is complicated also by the fact that this device is not made anymore.
Mission impossible! I like it!*)

jestermgee
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Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by jestermgee » Fri May 31, 2019 11:32 pm

KuzmaKuznetsov wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:59 pm
Hi there! I try to research this theme too. I have found this device: http://cdm.link/2006/06/wireless-midi-i ... 80m-range/
that hypothetical may be suitable, but it needs to be tested.
It is complicated also by the fact that this device is not made anymore.
Mission impossible! I like it!*)
That's a wireless MIDI device, not wireless USB, completely different beast. The fact it is hard to find something like that should start to indicate how difficult it is to make something like that reliable and with low enough latency to not affect the user.

Remember, Push is not a MIDI device, it is USB and there is far more going on than just some simple CC commands. For a start you have a full colour screen with a lot of data going to it.

The reason you do not see wireless USB senders is because of bandwidth, latency and reliability issues. USB is designed for fast communication direct with a PC and does not deal well with dropouts and interference. For example, a 5G WIFI connection can yield (at best) 450Mb/s if you have a 3 channel transceiver but in theory that is far more likely to be about 350Mb/s or less if you have multiple devices. A single antenna system is more like 70Mb/s. Far lower than the constant 400Mb/s needed for USB2. USB3+ can deliver many Gb of data a second which is far beyond the scope of wireless communications and impossible to xmit over wifi

To make Push wireless it would have to have its own CPU and communication protocol to handle wireless communication so it would need to be a whole new unit. It could be achieved, how the latency and response would be will be interesting, but apart from some convenience in some situations are there really that many situations, other than jamming on the couch or saving a cable run at a live venue (which face it, would you trust a wifi connection anyway) where it would be that used? Especially if it added $150 for instance to the cost of each unit.

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by blof_eld » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:09 pm

I don't understand people's obsession with "wireless" everything.

I put wireless in quotes because any "wireless" device will still need either batteries, or wires for a power supply.

So usually the complexity (problems!) and cost far outweigh any convenience advantages there might be.

For something like a Push, a large and not-really-portable unit with a power-hungry screen and lots of LEDs that would definitely need plug in power anyway, it just seems like a silly idea.

Mark Williams
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Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by Mark Williams » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:01 pm

Wont happen until they can get latency really low,
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
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ShelLuser
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Re: Make Push 2 wireless

Post by ShelLuser » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:34 pm

Not a fan of wireless. Too much stuff that can go wrong.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Komplete 12.
Blog: SynthFan

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