Ableton Push 3 update

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ShelLuser
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by ShelLuser » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:29 pm

MissAngie wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:05 pm
_The exclusive USB socket which does not allow the use of any cable
Wrong, it's just a standard USB cable. I simply re-used the one which I used for my APC40, there's nothing exclusive about it.
MissAngie wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:05 pm
_Self-coloring of clips of the same color as the track, which makes it very difficult to locate on the matrix in complex projects
That's something you configured in Live, it has nothing to do with the Push. I suggest you check the 'Look feel' tab of the settings. I say this because on my end Push 2 shows random clip colors as expected.
MissAngie wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:05 pm
_Still no possibility to act on physical audio I / O from Push
I'm not sure what this is suppose to mean but you have full control over a tracks IO section. Press the 'Mix' button twice and you'll see what I mean; the second bank provides all the IO settings.
MissAngie wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:05 pm
_Still no possibility to temporarily bypass the exclusivity of arming and soloing tracks from the Push
That's not entirely true either, but I think I have something else in mind than you. If you're talking about turning the feature off entirely then you're right. But it is possible to arm tracks other than the one currently selected, which will also override the 'semi-arm'. Of course this feature isn't very practical because you can't arm multiple tracks from behind the Push.

miyaru wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:19 am
Lot's of people are talking and asking for an audio interface build in in Push 3. I do not want that to happen. I just pick my own stuff whatever, whenever and at what cost I want.
Sure, but you could still do that no matter if it had one or not. And I seriously doubt that it would matter much with regards to product pricing, audio interfaces don't have to be that expensive anymore. I base myself on my experiences with the Maschine MkIII; it comes with its own audio interface but is still cheaper than the Push (even though it has 2 displays which are the most expensive parts as far as I know). And it also doesn't interfere at all with my regular audio setup.

In fact... you never know how it might end up being useful. It could be the perfect solution for people who take their equipment with them, and even in my home studio I sometimes have practical uses for the "Maschine audio"; my gf loves playing Taiko on Maschine but sometimes I have stuff to do. In which case I place the Maschine software on my 2nd monitor, tell it to use the Maschine ASIO, she plugs in the headphones into the Maschine and done...

Add Asio4All into the mix and you have benefit from the extra flexibility as well (= using multiple audio interfaces at once).
miyaru wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:19 am
Also in the last two month I learned Push is not depending on Live, but can act as a more then potent controller for Reason11. You have to use Shove or even better Pusher(2) for it. I have both, but Pusher does it way better I know now.
I'm happy to read that I'm not the only one who discovered this feat 8)

There's a good reason why Push sits right next to my keyboard; whenever I'm experimenting with other standalone environments (Reason, Max and/or Reaktor, Kontakt, FM8) then this is the ideal MIDI controller for me. It's a lot easier than turning towards my regular keyboard, or trying to play the keyboard with one hand and do other stuff with the other.

And seriously: this is also a feature I heavily favor on my Maschine. My preferred way of playing reasons Kong is using the Maschine in MIDI mode with Reason rewired into Live.

N.I. even takes this concept one step further by providing a "Controller Editor" which lets you assign MIDI values to pretty much every button and knob on the controller (any N.I. controller) and to save those presets as templates which you can select for usage. This makes external mapping software completely obsolete for me.

For me.... I do consider both Push(2) & Maschine (MkIII) to be instruments even though I'm well aware that it's also a bit of a marketing phrase. It's simply that it makes (some) sense to me; the main difference between this and a "regular" electronic instrument is that the latter has its firmware embedded onboard so it always knows what to do. These two depend on "remote" firmware.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

miyaru
Posts: 799
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by miyaru » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:15 pm

For the ones wondering what Push2/PusheR2 does with Reason.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4yrHPx ... =emb_title
Greetings from Miyaru.

Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Live Suit 10, Push2, Reason Suite 11, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

MissAngie
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: south west France

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by MissAngie » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:29 pm

ShelLuser, to be honest I don't have Push 2, I'm still expecting that the hardware tests on internet or in print press do not deliver as many negative points as positive, but half or less, (to Lovelight) this is how I judge a machine purchasable. I don't want to have to check each day out for several years if I have a buyer for my Push 2 resale ad, this is slavery at the web, because I like feeling free. If I buy, it is safe. I bought Push 2 wooden triangle side feet on Ebay and that's all, I keep them while waiting, maybe I'll give in to Push 2, maybe not. The fact remains that I have known the Ableton page on Push 2 from the first few weeks, and I have never been in awe of this way of pretending to make music without a mouse so simply, too good to be true. I know that Ableton took us a little bit for naive people. :(

For me it would require a special Push 3 in a still flat design black but a bit tilted, with a 20 GHz 4 cores processor, a large 16 to 32 Go extensible RAM (upgradable at home with generic computer bars), fanless (important) processor device capable of sustain the heaviests VSTi) twice as large than Push 2, many reprogrammable and customizable buttons, a large matt anti reflection finish multitouch points screen with a HDR brightness of 1000 cd/m² to use outdoor, as the Philips MOMENTUM 436M6VBPAB computer monitor (=3x usual brightness). Push 3 as some silent portable computer, not too expensive, There yes I would believe it. Maybe another ruban slide, horizontal to see the devices, under the screen.

I would a Push 3 to make electronic music sound design on my VSTi synth too, a Push 3 realy mouse-free. Ihave just drawn it on paper.

Image
Last Ableton Live for progressive psytrance, I hope for life.
I recommand the quite or hot pearls hunt in the https://www.psyshop.com CDs seller database (to plan aspirine).
"Less is more", motto of minimal art.

MissAngie
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: south west France

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by MissAngie » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:34 pm

I wrote this last night, almost did not publish it, I lack self-confidence, I think too much about things without outlets. Go, never mind


No, I will not propose Transformers buttons forPush 7 (2041), although the self-assembly of small & identical robots exists in laboratory for now a few years (a track using electromagnets may have been invented since) :)

For me it would require a special Push 3+ in a still flat design black but a bit tilted, with a 20 GHz 4 cores, large 16 to 32 Go extensible RAM (to do oneself at home), fanless (important) processor device capable of sustain the heaviests VSTi) twice as large than Push 2, many reprogrammable and customizable buttons, a large matt anti reflection finish multitouch points screen with a brightness of 1000 cd/m² to use outdoor, as the Philips MOMENTUM 436M6VBPAB computer monitor (=3x usual brightness). Push 3 as some silent portable computer, not too expensive, There yes I would believe it. Maybe another ruban slide, horizontal to see the devices, under the screen.


:idea: A NEW DIRECTION TO ADD TO MAX FOR LIVE : AUTO-ADAPT FONCTIONS TO YOUR HABITS
Push 3 ou Push 3+, a power user Push 2 version, workflow and opening oriented by using software-wide artificial intelligence (AI) ?
The spreadsheet Microsoft Excel looks like session mode of Live. With Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) all the entiere software of the Microsoft Office suite is programmable, non only the cells ! Live and Push should have the same adaptability. Autorize AI to access outside the focus of data music handled by Live in could give help user to be assisted by precise or misunderstood reactions, revocable , changeable, deactivable, erasable tools.


3 levels of gradualy complexity in personalization availables on the same machine, from beginners to confirmed programmers :

-1/ (easy) The possibility of building automatic adaptation processes, either from {choose Push 3 either Live} towards you
[by connecting a new kind from / for {Push 3 or Max for Live} modules to invent, and dedicated to artificial intelligence
, and well thought out which anticipates the needs. You can do it also on Live then transfert on Push 3+ in a first classic memory. We would exchange on Maxforlive.com alterable too workflow algorithms. With this everyone would improve their own worflow, if necessary.]

_2/ (intermediate)The possibility of building automatic adaptation processes from Push or Live towards you
[by writing indifferently from / for Push 3 or Live, scripts short to very long containing maybe subprograms. Scripts stored on Push or Live, no matters. Maybe the scripting language Lua born from brazilian research is faster than well known interpreted language Python used in AI by scientists and others ?) Scripts stored on Push 3 in a second classic memory or into Live, no matters]


_3/ (hard) The possibility of building automatic adaptation processes from Push or Live towards you
[by writing indifferently from (hoster) / for (destination) Push 3 or Live complex own self made or tierce part "true" and compiled classic softwares. Hosted on Push 3, this means stored on a SSD, Push become a computer, it can host the Microsoft Windows Operating Systems, or to be a second computer in dialogue with the main (which contains Live). A to wide open field indeed


I also need wireless audio (look for Wisa and DTS Play-fi) and wireless MIDI to get away from the computer a bit noisy despite its internal foam insulation, it gets me drunk for a day.

It will be a boss special Push 3+ which rocks and which will still be at the top eight years later, because I am passionate about electronic music (psytrance) probably for life. I expect from Ableton something which also gives me the opportunity to express my hard computer science inclination, not a toy, otherwise I will tinker in my corner. I am interested in a musical style that expresses a passion for technology, sci-fi, futurism with the dilemma of being in harmony with nature, so to be consistent, I need equipment that pushes far helping me to make mental space trips. While waiting for such an innovative composition machine, I prefer to settle for an APC40 mK1 and program projects to be clarified in the common C language family, and some others.
Last Ableton Live for progressive psytrance, I hope for life.
I recommand the quite or hot pearls hunt in the https://www.psyshop.com CDs seller database (to plan aspirine).
"Less is more", motto of minimal art.

[jur]
Site Admin
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Location: Ableton

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by [jur] » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:26 pm

I love your drawing style MissAngle!
Ableton Forum Moderator

ShelLuser
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by ShelLuser » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:24 pm

That drawing almost looks like that new Akai controller ;)

Anyway, I'm not much of a fan. First the 36 knobs at the bottom; those make it extremely unpractical to play the pads because you'll have to bend your hands over the knobs. Not to mention what would happen if you accidentally touch one with your wrist. In comparison to the APC40 this was actually one of the biggest positive changes for me: having the knobs all the way at the top so that they don't interfere with accessing the pads or other buttons.

As for the big (touch?) display... Not for me. Touch displays are fun and all but they also come with a large risk factor of misfiring. Depending of course on the interface that's going to be used. Even so... from an ergonomic perspective having several regular buttons would be much more efficient. They'll take up less space than the virtual ones and also prevent the risk of accidentally clicking the wrong one.

Still, should Push 3 do come out next year then I think it would be the perfect time to pick up on a 2, it sounds reasonable that the prices for the two would drop at that time. And I can honestly say that the Push 2 is the best thing that happened to me with regards to operating Live.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

MissAngie
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: south west France

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by MissAngie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:04 am

[jur] wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:26 pm
I love your drawing style MissAngle!
Thank you for your nice feedback :) , image is bigger here (= open in right clic) :
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xqSryORfYDg/ ... BCopie.JPG
Paper, with a pencil with a ruler then a rushed approximative coloring on Photofiltre 7 ( free, http://www.photofiltre-studio.com/pf7.htm ) The blue stain is an nice accident of the function 'to fill color' which follows the contour of fine relief of the paper pulp, with my favorite color. It as propagated along the sheet edge from left to right almost instantly :P
Finaly, I' m happy because I did my first credible rough (vocabulary of drawing ), it's my visual side. Too, I'm interested in long term searching MaxforLive and more ways to Vjing to connect sound and image.
Last Ableton Live for progressive psytrance, I hope for life.
I recommand the quite or hot pearls hunt in the https://www.psyshop.com CDs seller database (to plan aspirine).
"Less is more", motto of minimal art.

MissAngie
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: south west France

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by MissAngie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:07 am

Hello ShelLuser, this drawings brings together outwardly what I like about Push and APC, but is not at all taken from the Akai Force, which does not interest me much (because it is not dedicated to Ableton Live, it's very important to me). It's mainly a bigger Push 2.

Like you I'm not too confident with touch screens, I have already a touch screen (a Viewsonic TD2340*) for my tower computer and it's not as convenient as real buttons or mouse because of the thick glass, we don't touch the TFT film (robust) directly on pixels, and you never really know what your fingers are touching or not touching, we cannot never see between the round fingertip and the screen... :? Force's screen is too small, it is necessary to double the surface with the same ratio. I also prefer a screen not touch, but larger, for user interface of VSTi (like that of U-HE Diva I have, for example). Fine pixels are appreciable too in equal screen dimensions, but not essential, and if it is too expensive I prefer classic IPS screens. Screen to see also file Browser, Session, Arrangement, others synthétizers signal waves, spectrums views, UI of hardware synths , rares M4L with big UI , diverse clever MIDI views, and coding ways of my previous message.

The many knobs are also dedicated to VSTi, I prefer 3 long lines of knobs : 16 * 3 = 48 knobs plus, under each one, a long lighted screen to shows the long names of the parameters (the text can scroll) and values, then 4 banks of 48 knobs with a bank button.
I want more pads, more knobs, a more generous screen, to see and touch, to access instantly. I need to experiment, tinker, for a long time, that's why I would like a Push that is not limited to a reduced interface for incessant travels. A push 3 more sedentary but also more computer-independent if it remains a controller. Transportable, reclinable and slim (hull and cover, bag).

This Push 3 has visibilitility on 32 tracks. For an electronic dance music sequencer, it's better to have three rows of 16 knobs, it makes more sense with. It's a detail, I would prefer that the knobs (not too hight, almost rubbered, top lighted, rounded edge, less minimalistics but more comfortable and visible in dark) are a close to me to be able to handle them long and accurately. Moreover, I prefer that they very partially screens the view (in oblique view) of the first row of pad (which contains only variable colors and flashes) rather than information on the main screen, asking for all small pixels. The vertical and horizontal ribbons also used as fast view in Session and Arrangement, rack view, and other screens. On the side(s) : An alone large XY pad (able to be crossfader) to morph sounds, or large XY and a real crossfader too.

* https://www.viewsonic.com/uk/products/lcd/td2340.php

Anyway, I like Ableton a lot and I trust their choices for the future. Long life to Live :)
Last edited by MissAngie on Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Last Ableton Live for progressive psytrance, I hope for life.
I recommand the quite or hot pearls hunt in the https://www.psyshop.com CDs seller database (to plan aspirine).
"Less is more", motto of minimal art.

MissAngie
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: south west France

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by MissAngie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:48 am

It seems that the hand turning a knob hide a bit :| the control of the digitalised values corresponding to the rotation des potentiometers on the Push 1 & 2. You have maybe to twist your wrist a bit or spread the elbows to make room and see the values change (but we have to make sound by hearing, close eyes sometimes, and not always verifying all by view).

The 16 (width) * 3 (height) potentiometers and their the triptych of longs screens (values) that I suggest could be spaced from the pads by the black tactile horizontal ribbon, but placing this last between screen and grid of lighted pads seems says that it is useful for the two (to scroll along the track, see more tracks, to view long racks if unfolded).

The important thing it seems to me is important to preserve is to not divide them into 2 groups of 8 (width)*3 (height) , because their unit is useful for the peaceful mind uses of step sequencer and arpeggiator. Seeing a step sequencer, especially in electronic music, we don't like to disrupt the continuous flow, the cyclic tracking view of the lighted pads, because It' s an intuitive block as useful and worthy of staying coherent than others of the machine, like the grid of pads #. It should be the same of the knobs that accompany it. :idea:
And finally, If we put them (stacked 8*3, or especially 16*3 :!: ) all on one side, the machine is not symmetrical anymore, so is it then as comfortable to use ?
Last Ableton Live for progressive psytrance, I hope for life.
I recommand the quite or hot pearls hunt in the https://www.psyshop.com CDs seller database (to plan aspirine).
"Less is more", motto of minimal art.

MissAngie
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: south west France

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by MissAngie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:21 am

:idea:
2020 The two right-angled orange double (short and long) lifting legs which is I know really not pretty :D for a rough could be drawned by a product designer with an hollowed out arc style and made of natural grey aluminium or magnesium and detachable (for aesthetics and transport). Replacables (if lost).

2030 Or, also imagine, under the Push a "silent" electric miniaturised lifting mechanism of retraction jacks with worm screw ( perhaps robotized, following quickly the player orientation by face orientation recognition ? With this, Push should be always front of you even if you sit or stand up. Then add rotation, this will you can browse your live-show desk more easily from a machine to another, without mimicking the condor or the octopus, you will also be allowed to retie your shoelace, it's not insignificant).
Last Ableton Live for progressive psytrance, I hope for life.
I recommand the quite or hot pearls hunt in the https://www.psyshop.com CDs seller database (to plan aspirine).
"Less is more", motto of minimal art.

subrift
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:31 pm

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by subrift » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:44 pm

Whenever I take my Push our to play live, I have to:
Set up my laptop, plus charger (also usb C adapters)
Set up Push - USB, and power cable
Set up an Interface - 1/4” x 2, another USB.
Doesn’t sound like much but a built in interface and a C type cable will cut down a huge chunk of that equipment which takes a long time to set up and there’s always a risk of losing an important cable.

Push is an amazing instrument that can play whatever I want on stage and build a track on the fly at the same time. Because it’s not only a production tool for the studio but also a performance tool it would be very beneficial for it to have a built in interface in order to accommodate to a huge part of Ableton’s user base and match Maschine MK3. A USB C is a must, since it’ll allow for full bus power and it’ll match the new technology - all the macs are usb C and all new windows machines have at least one C port. That alone will be worth upgrading because of massive mobility improvement.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am

Akai Force is basically Ableton Live in hardware form. It's compatible with Live as a Push type controller as well.
You can play the clips in Force at the same time you're playing clips in Live, and switch fairly quickly the interface between the two. If I was all in on Ableton Live, this would be the obvious solution.

Honestly my main complaints with it are it has no Guitar Amp sim and it's using RAM as of now for clips. Beyond that it's a solid DAW less solution to live performance. It imports Live sets as well (audio clips obviously), so you can produce in Ableton Live and perform in Force.

JJSC
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:43 pm

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by JJSC » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:41 pm

Do you guys really think ableton is going to release a push 3 in the next loop? I'm on the fence to get a push 2 but it would be cool if ableton gave a hint about next "movements"

eaman
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by eaman » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:17 am

I don't need a standalone Push, I've already paid for my laptop and for my big PC.

What I could use is a cheaper Push: 650 is too much! Please make something cheaper possibly with a focus on composition and macros as there are allready a lot of performance, pads, launchpad controllers.

No need for a full audio interface for recording, I already have that, but I need a DAC with proper ASIO drivers to use my Windows laptop with Ableton.

Mark Williams
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Deal, Kent

Re: Ableton Push 3 update

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:52 am

JJSC wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:41 pm
Do you guys really think ableton is going to release a push 3 in the next loop? I'm on the fence to get a push 2 but it would be cool if ableton gave a hint about next "movements"
If your waiting for Push 3, why not just wait a few more years for Push 4!
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL,

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