Ableton Unsigned

Share your music productions here
de wouzer
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by de wouzer » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:42 pm

Rave wrote:
Angstrom wrote:it's not just about politeness (and legality!), but saving people work.
If you put a lot of effort into a design and layout - then receive a mail saying

"Hey, it's Gerhard from Ableton here - I love your site but could you make more clear you are not associated with us. EG: reduce the size and prominence of the logo and our branding, because currently it looks like we are affiliated with you. Our affiliates pay a whole metric fuck-ton of cash to be associated with us, and buddy, I don't see no check with your name on it here. But I do see my Glock. You feel me dawg?"

at that point you say "ah fuck, I spent ages getting that layout right, and now I have to re-do the whole thing. Damn."

better to save yourself work.
U did good mate :)
oke, I understand (and it's not my site....)
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8

Angstrom
Posts: 14686
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:26 pm

levimoniz wrote:Angstrom,
Why would Ableton consider an unsigned artist project that uses their logo a BAD thing?
Perhaps they'll SPONSOR this in the future if it becomes successful enough!
At worst, they'll get some publicity out of it. At best, they'll welcome the concept and maybe even form some sorta vanity label.
Why are you so concerned?

Why would they consider it a bad thing?

OK, imagine that I am starting a website - it's called Radiohead Record Label. I am using the Radiohead logo on it, and the radiohead design style and the radiohead colours (whatever they are)
now, do you think radiohead will be ...
A: really pleased.
B: really, really pleased and even sponsor it !!11!
C: mail you and say - take it the fuck down.

really. Just consider that. Now visit me at www.radiohead-unsigned.com

I'm trying to save people time and effort here. Undoing a load of work then doing it again, that is really annoying, especially if you were happy with the first iteration. I don't want people wasting effort on a design and branding that will get pulled and probably undermine the project just as it finds its feet. because 'just when it finds its feet' is exactly when anyone in Abletons "Branding and Copyright Enforcement" division will start to notice.

a simple polite email with ableton at this point could save a lot of undoing and re-doing later on.
if they reply they will give a little guidance on what to avoid and what's OK to include.


One final thing: here's a real world example.
Two companies that specialise in providing Ableton specific services. Note : how big is the Ableton logo on their pages? Could you confuse these with an official Ableton site?

http://puremagnetik.com/
http://www.covops.org/

also note that I would give the same advice if someone said they were starting up a site called "CocaCola-unsigned". It's not about Ableton specifically, it's about understanding how to start up successful web presence without stepping on peoples toes.

</free business advice>

Tarekith
Posts: 17454
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by Tarekith » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:58 pm

FWIW, Ableton was very adament about the ALDJ site not using their logo too, we couldn't even use the session view icon for our site or for some T-shirts. Very adament.

Truly think you guys will have an issue if you decide to try and use it. Just a heads up.

the_antagonist
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by the_antagonist » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:20 pm

all good points. but the matter at hand. the first of the new ones were better.

the ableton logo above (with the lines) looks like half of the 5th element movie logo. keep that in your back pocket incase you need some backmail.


it should be bold/sharp in your face

or

picture the scene. its the desert. all you can see is sand dunes with the picture slightly distored from the heat. accros the picture you can see the path left by a man attempting to drag his body accross the desert as if trying to find water. You look a bit closer to see that the man in infact dead with one arm out streched, with a pen in hand about one foot from a piece of paper that have might resuced him from a job as an office drone.

Angstrom
Posts: 14686
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:05 pm

levimoniz wrote:
Angstrom wrote:imagine that I am starting a website - it's called Radiohead Record Label. I am using the Radiohead logo on it, and the radiohead design style and the radiohead colours (whatever they are)
Is that really anything like what these Ableton Unsigned people are doing?

Naturally the difference between AU and the sites you named is that those guys are trying to sell something.

No-one is trying to benefit from using Ableton's logo or name here. This is a project involving unsigned artists who happen to USE Ableton, so surely the name and perhaps the logo would be a necessary part of the concept. As long as it's made clear that this is an 'unofficial' thing, I don't see the problem.

But at the end of the day, I, like you Angstrom, really have no personal stake in any result that may come about so I don't care what happens.

Just wanted to point out that allowing it is smartest & coolest thing Ableton could do.
yes, but check Tarekith's post, I think ALDJ is similar enough to draw a parallel.
That being : using a "for-profit" organisation's branding to promote an un-affiliated project. You see, by using established branding you can get more kudos. EG: Compare the fictional "Nike-unsigned.com" with "Trevors-unsigned.com", the nike one will get more hits, and hits mean money my friend.

It doesn't matter if you are selling something, it's all about the ownership and licensing of the brand. Yes, it seems crappy, but that's the way business works. The way it really works.

Ableton are all good & friendly people, but they are also pretty tough business types too, make no mistake about it. They didn't get ahead on cuddles alone, they had to punch a few kittens along the way.
Tarekith wrote:FWIW, Ableton was very adamant about the ALDJ site not using their logo too, we couldn't even use the session view icon for our site or for some T-shirts. Very adamant.
Truly think you guys will have an issue if you decide to try and use it. Just a heads up.

contakt321
Posts: 1523
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:39 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by contakt321 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:17 am

Just wanted to drop a note and say that:

1. Love the podcast/mix
2. Angstrom's advice is incredibly sound. Listen to him.

interceptor
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by interceptor » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:30 am

But the idea is still good.

Why not change the name of the blog and continue making mixes from unsigned artists?

de wouzer
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by de wouzer » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:03 am

interceptor wrote:But the idea is still good.

Why not change the name of the blog and continue making mixes from unsigned artists?
that's the way!
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8

de wouzer
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by de wouzer » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:22 pm

I think he went to Tailand, afraid to be put in jail after this horrible crime
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8

amigo
Posts: 992
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:39 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by amigo » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:25 pm

Hey guys,
I haven't had a chance to catch up on posts until now. I agree that Ableton may not allow us to use their logo and that is understandable.

I did send an email to Ableton but have not yet received a response. I will re-send it and think it woudl be best to copy more of their contact address. Until I receive a response things should continue as they are.

You all know the story behind the project and it's aim and think it would be great if Ableton got behind it. Even if that meant being allowed to use their logo.

I think this project is as much good publicity for Ableton as it is for the artists.

allenz
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:39 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by allenz » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:36 pm

Hi,
Thanks for sharing the links on music............:)

bolleh
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:11 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by bolleh » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:14 pm

Thats allright, didn't know about their position in the logo use. But I was just tossing some ideas around since I think this is a nice initiative. But if I've learned something from modding games years back is that you need a stable team if you really want to make something out of it. So i'd just thought i'd try and get some more people interested in it

pedx1ng
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:58 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by pedx1ng » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:38 pm

Hey ya'll how about something like the Reaper boys have? They have Reaper Radio, a streaming Shoutcast station. If there was something like that for Ableton Live users I would definitely tune into that. It's a bit overwhelming trying to sift through stuff in the Link Your Music forum and frankly I'm too lazy to do too much of it. :mrgreen: A streaming station would make it all much simpler.

jcwillia
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:33 pm

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by jcwillia » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:27 am

this is like MTV's Amp for our little forum :)

cool idea - keep it moving though - don't get stuck on a sub genre :)

u know what's funny is the opportunity to interact with the people writing the tunes heightens the interest factor dramatically...weird philosophical observation on my part. :oops:
Composition Name : JRock3x8
Soundcloud | Blog

amigo
Posts: 992
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:39 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Ableton Unsigned

Post by amigo » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:16 pm

Rave wrote:I wonder when the next installment is out.
It's funny you should mention that. :)
It will be available by the end of this week.
Life has been getting in the way but I'm back on track. ;)

Post Reply