Villalobos hating on Ableton

[leedsquietman]

Black Lion's mods are highly recommended - I have heard a lot of good stuff about their mods. For MOTU interfaces, as well as Digidesign.

[Emissary]

pre·ten·tious-

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious.

[necho]

I think there is a signature sound that can be attained with Live's stock instruments. I think monolake's albums have that sound (it works.) if any DAW colors the sound their competition can put out full page ads in trade magazines showing that.

+1

Every time I make a tune using ONLY Live instruments and effects, I end up sounding like a poor-man's Robert Henke.

It depends entirely on how you use the software though.

This all sounds like bullshit to me - even if Live does have its own sound, its an INSTRUMENT. Different instruments have different sounds.

This Villalobos guy does seem like a prick to me. But then I have an irrational problem with fashion victim techno-types.

[necho]

Having read the article more closely - I'd say this is a textbook case of "I've done some much coke and had so many people tell me I'm great that I've completely disappeared up my own arse and started believing my own bullshit".

hahaha - its quite funny really...

[trevorc]

Having read the article more closely - I'd say this is a textbook case of "I've done some much coke and had so many people tell me I'm great that I've completely disappeared up my own arse and started believing my own bullshit".

[/nailonhead]

[bip]

i mostly agree with ricardo
the strong points about ableton live are the workflow and the live jamming possibilities, but for sure not the purity of sound. the freedom in the workflow has a price -> warping artefacts
it is the easiest DAW to use, so many dj's have started producing generic hype tracks for this reason and over 90% of what goes out on beatport sounds the same... uninteresting... boring.. and mp3...
this can really be heard within seconds!
how many people here have worked with analog recording before live? with analog gear? or with acoustic instruments? do you have accurate monitors in your studio? how long it takes to spot when a dj is spining vinyl or mp3? how can you compare?

[stefan-tiedje]

If you try to make a distinction between your music and music others do, and argue with equipment (I consider software to be equipment). Its not the ears that count its mindfuck... And if he has the expensive gear others can't afford, its clear, he wants to convince you not to trust your ears...
Maybe he has a reason? I didn't find any of his music on the net, but lots of lists of activities. But it might still be great stuff he is doing, a lot of brilliant artist have poor skills in analysis...

In my personal experience of longer than he is on earth, I never ever found any correlation between the quality of music and gear, even not a correlation of quality of sound and gear... If a good musician uses lofi equipment, she probably will find ways to make it sound good, its a matter of taste in the end...

You will find bad music, and music which evidently is made with certain gear all over the place, its the majority anyway but tells nothing about the good music which is around as well...

Stefan

[tigali]

Comparing the difference in sound of Vinyl and MP3 with the difference between DAWs is way off the mark. My wife could tell the difference between Vinyl and MP3, you don't need years of training to do that. The difference between a couple of preamps takes a little more practice and the difference between the sound engine in two DAWs would take a pair of Alien ears from the future. It's just not humanly possible. Everybody re-read leedsquietmans post and then stop posting in this thread. He said all you need to know about the subject.

[crumhorn]

1) Make great music
2) Fuss over the fine details of the listening experience
3) Profit....


Step 2 is optional.

[dna598]

You do have to be a bit careful in Ableton. You must double check the warping algorithms with themselves to make sure the sound isnt worse or better. Sometimes changing back to 16th or 8th instead of slice does reveal better reults for example.
That said, to be complaining about this sort of thing when you are making electronic dance music, and MINIMAL at that, is a joke.

I think this man has never completed a track in ableton that he is happy with, and is frustrated by that.

[smartass303]

its the user not the tool.
ricardo is totally right when he says that the ease of use (of ableton live) makes everyone and her mum a producer. and that most of the stuff is generic tossing shite "music", come on! hes totally right on that one.
the point about the sound engine has been proven wrong. several times...

so what, he was high again,

303

[m:o]

I think this man has never completed a track in ableton that he is happy with, and is frustrated by that.

besides his questionable statement about the lack of Live's quality,
this man's musical output over the years is has been sbsolutely stunning
in many ways. musically he's one of most forward thinking persons in
electronic music since years (not suitable for his dj set's which lack earlier
outstandingness since a long time). as long as his music feed my head with such
genious waves of sound - he can stick his audiophile-ikonwitbetter-finger up to smth. - i don't care.

[necho]

its the user not the tool.
ricardo is totally right when he says that the ease of use (of ableton live) makes everyone and her mum a producer.

true - but what's wrong with that? There are a lot of people out there who spent a lot of time learning how to use more complex, arcane and expensive equipment/software. In my experience, they tend to be pretty pissed off that technology has enabled people to make music more easily and for less money.... but IMO, that's just a bit sad really...

I started on a Portastudio, then discovered Cool Edit, moved on to Cubase, then Logic - then learned Pure Data and Reaktor - then discovered Live. What Live allows me to do is make the same stuff quicker - meaning I can actually hold down a job AND keep making music.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how easy/hard the production process is - it's the end result that matters. Shite music is shite music, whenther its produced in Live, or using a custom Max patch and a Neve console.

Democratizing music production is a good thing.

[ikeaboy]

I've met people who swear the interface's time clock is almost paramount.

True as long as your recording the soundcards output. Dexter is one of my favourite techno tracks ever but I'm dissapointed RV has given fuel to this whole pointless debate.
If Pro Tools was more entry user friendly beatport would be clogged with minimal techno made with that as well and it would be mostly crap and have a specific sound due to the workflow and effects bias of the software not the summing engine.

And it would be mostly crap because 90% of all music is crap.

[Da hand]