Max for Live - first impressions?

[4/4]

how many presets will it ship with?

best post yet!

lol sarcasm?

I mean...what can I say I'm a preset guy. I'm not one to program my own patches. I tend to spend the limited amount of time I have to work on music ...actually composing/creating tracks. Thats not intended as a stab at sound designers (hobbyist or professional)
Now whatever you would call them for Max and or Max4Live...patches, devices whatever....the only way I would even think about dropping coin on this thing is if it came w/some great.....presets.

Well, they have guys like you in mind because alot of PLUGGO is supposed to be included with M4L as M4L devices.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep05/a ... pluggo.htm

[nebulae]

@chris - sorry, dude, I thought you were making a joke about presets. Since the very concept of Max is to program stuff for yourself. Misunderstanding, no offense intended.

BTW, no shame in being a preset whore. Get's the job done in making music, which is my prime directive.

[nebulae]

@4/4 your english is fine, dude, just trying to understand your philosophy, which I think I now understand. I think I disagree that changing the paradigm will COMPLETELY ruin the "collective" mentality you're talking about. That hasn't happened with any Ableton product, and I'd say we have a very healthy collective attitude here. I think Rave's store idea is an easy way to implement patches and patch sharing, and there's no harm in it. Certainly not a philosophical poison that will defeat creativity.

Again, just disagreeing with you. Nothing personal.

[nebulae]

As I understand it, you'll never be able to run M4L devices without buying M4L. Is that correct?

[4/4]

What's being proposed here is a store-centric environment where SELLING comes first and SHARING becomes the option. A complete 180 flip in paradigm.

is the paradigm you're speaking of the Max paradigm?

I can see your point...though I can see how an "app store" like set up would encourage more patches.

Well, no disrespect Chris, but you clearly don't know jack about the max community. It's huge, positively over-flowing with freely accessible content for those who expose themselves to it. It doesn't need encouragement in that regard. It's not broken. Don't fix it by completely flipping the script. If someone needs financial encouragement to create content, they'll do so of their own accord without being lead down that path. That's how its thrived for years.

[nebulae]

Those presets would have to be pretty awesome. For 249 euros I could buy all sorts of good stuff elsewhere.

Now if the runtime was free/cheap and the apps were free/cheap, more people would adopt M4L and Ableton would make more cash in the long run because more people would have adopted it.

+++

[citizenchris099]

@chris - sorry, dude, I thought you were making a joke about presets. Since the very concept of Max is to program stuff for yourself. Misunderstanding, no offense intended.

BTW, no shame in being a preset whore. Get's the job done in making music, which is my prime directive.

I do tweak and certainly go crazy w/FX chains and what not to get the sound I want (I'm in love w/NI Guitar Rig outside the context of guitar use) But as far as building my own synth presets fro scratch....yeah I just don't care to. I remember feeling ashamed of this fact...then reading an interview with Jimmy Jam and he was strait up about the fact that he didn't have time to create patches. As he put it "these guys get paid to come up with awesome presets" Its pretty much how I feel.

[citizenchris099]

What's being proposed here is a store-centric environment where SELLING comes first and SHARING becomes the option. A complete 180 flip in paradigm.

is the paradigm you're speaking of the Max paradigm?

I can see your point...though I can see how an "app store" like set up would encourage more patches.

Well, no disrespect Chris, but you clearly don't know jack about the max community. It's huge, positively over-flowing with freely accessible content for those who expose themselves to it. It doesn't need encouragement in that regard. It's not broken. Don't fix it by completely flipping the script. If someone needs financial encouragement to create content, they'll do so of their own accord without being lead down that path. That's how its thrived for years.

Well I sorta do know quite a bit about Max and Pure Data...I took a course and all. Maybe the professor was full of crap...but I'm pretty sure I know at least "jack" about Max. That being said I'm not attacking anyone here and certianly don't think I should be attacked....I was just trying to get some clarification from you as to what paradigm you are speaking of.
Just because I dont want to sit around making patches in Max in the little amount of time I get to work on music doesn't mean I dont know how or that I "don't know jack" as you put it.

[nebulae]

@chris LOL, I'm enjoying watching you try to explain a difference in opinion vs. a personal attack to a zealot.

BTW, Macs suck. Go Windows 7. (well, why not, it's been about a week.)

[3phase]

While I see the truth in what you say and have said about this topic before, especially considering fads in the past like the suppatrigga vst (and now beat repeat?), it's neither here nor there in the context of this discussion imo. People in the max community share because they want to, and it's not just vultures lapping it up but other patchers with time on their hands and/or ideas for improving the patches. There's no hidden clause in the EULA which dictates you've got to share your work, btw.

sure.. i shared many patches .. buts a difference to share patches with people that are actualy into programming themself than sharing with people that just use the work of others..

we have seen with reaktor how this has affected the techno scene back than when reator had its highest popularity..all this dub techno tracks using the same reaktor presets... it was dreadfull not because the preset sounded dreadfull..it was dreadfull because so many dj´s got fooled by the on the first listening interesting sound and played this crap in the clubs..

in the times before professional techno presets a lame track was easier to identfy..
There was no good sounding tracks from people without talent or dedication.
it really hurts when soulless techo gets dominant..and the ghost inside the machine is a very subtile one...

all the copycat tracks steal the room for the good ones..and because dj´s tend to only play new records any time soulless music dominates the market we have soulless music in the clubs...
what results in lesser audience after a while..lesser bookings.. financial problems for musicans that have to live from that shit and dont do it as an hobby...
up to a point where the dj´s are forced to play fresh stuff again... they only do it when they have to..they usually dont take risks.. with the dj´s we have today none of the modern styles could have emerged..
however... risk avoiding djs and preset culture go hand in hand... add mp3 piracy and name it the revenge of the establishment for rock n roll..

today the money is not earned with music..its earned with selling the illusion to be a musican without any hazzle or pain..
or risk..

you can become a dj and the audience reception is that you are a master of music that magically produces hours of music..

you can become a producer and with looptools like ableton with its 1000´s of presets or the magix music maker you will have an own record out in no time..

great times. no wonder that the main focus is on the dress style of a dj or musican by now, rather than on the music that comes out behind...


In short..max for live is nice because the max guys get something of the big culture vulture money cake.. a nice move from theire ableton friends..
but beside that its perversion

[hoffman2k]

how many presets will it ship with?

best post yet!

lol sarcasm?

I mean...what can I say I'm a preset guy. I'm not one to program my own patches. I tend to spend the limited amount of time I have to work on music ...actually composing/creating tracks. Thats not intended as a stab at sound designers (hobbyist or professional)
Now whatever you would call them for Max and or Max4Live...patches, devices whatever....the only way I would even think about dropping coin on this thing is if it came w/some great.....presets.

About 40 audio effects each with about 5 presets (so far). Too much examples to count. 8 instruments with various amounts of presets. 2 step sequencers, more coming for sure.

[citizenchris099]

@chris LOL, I'm enjoying watching you try to explain a difference in opinion vs. a personal attack to a zealot.

BTW, Macs suck. Go Windows 7. (well, why not, it's been about a week.)

What's funny is that I'm not even really stating an opinion in regards to an M4L app store...merely positing a notion. Even that seems to be too much.
In regards to software ...to the best of my knowledge just because their are those charging this does not stop free alternatives. I mean seriously some of the best apps I use on my PC are from http://www.piriform.com/ all free apps.
as far as soft synths and fx plug ins....are you kidding. their are so many free alternatives to the big expensive stuff its not even funny.
That being said...I defy you to find a free software that is as intuitive and functional as Ableton Live.

[hoffman2k]

Personally I sometimes wish I spent the last five years learning C++ or Objective C than max msp, so I can understand when someone would rather just make music than beta test and redevelop the wheel (or develop "other wheels".)

There's a problem with your thinking. The hell with wheels. Jetpacks and hoverbikes!
I mean, at least give me the freaking hovering skateboard.

[citizenchris099]

In short..max for live is nice because the max guys get something of the big culture vulture money cake.. a nice move from theire ableton friends..
but beside that its perversion

So I take you have your copy reserved?

[sparkletone]

Right this minute there are over 120 registered users and only 9 devices shared by only 5 users. As a device developer who may have spent months building a complicated, one of a kind, effect, do I share it to a community who does not give me anything back? I think a lot of people are thinking this already. They all signed up because they want to use other peoples devices but very few are willing to share yet.

Very few people have access to Max4Live in any form. Up until today there was no public beta, and the public beta that went up today has only been out, what, a few hours now?

Give it some time.