Man made Global Warming is not taking place

[Jan Holm]

Haven't seen this posted here. I am skeptic about CO2 being
the cause of global warming (or cooling for that matter) That's
one reason not to like the direction of the climate debate.

Here's another

The story of cap and trade
http://vimeo.com/7908590

[Green Lemon]

Well you keep saying about Malthus but he is currently being proven right. so i don't understand what your trying to say. Just because it didn't happen in his lifetime doesn't make him wrong. The only way you can really judge a theory like that properly is if your a god able to look at the entire timeline of human existence. so really its pointless arguing about it, so i avoided it.

Did I miss mass starvation happening all over the planet? Is petrol at 100 dollars a liter?

Oh, no. So Malthus isn't being proven right, at this very moment.

Emissary, you're on the right track, but you need to calm down a bit. You believe what you are spouting so fervently that you can't see the smallest possibility you might be wrong. And you have the tendency to take any question as a need to justify your worldview. I've stated so many times I agree with you, its silly.

I bring up Malthus because dude was wrong, and for the moment, the future he predicted has never come to pass.

[Green Lemon]

....but I'm pretty sure that we need to react.

Short of all of us plugging our noses and threatening to hold our collective breath a reaaaaaally long time in protest, how do we react?

Everyone gets top marks in this thread for identifying the problems, but workable solutions are in short supply.

Most of the suggestions, while *ahem* interesting, are meaningless anti corporate ramblings and complete shit.

Every nation imposes a carbon tax, with penalty tariffs for noncompliance. Part of the tax is cash refunds to offset fuel purchases by the poor. Part of it is R+D money for renewables development.

Done.

[Emissary]

Well you keep saying about Malthus but he is currently being proven right. so i don't understand what your trying to say. Just because it didn't happen in his lifetime doesn't make him wrong. The only way you can really judge a theory like that properly is if your a god able to look at the entire timeline of human existence. so really its pointless arguing about it, so i avoided it.

Did I miss mass starvation happening all over the planet? Is petrol at 100 dollars a liter?

Oh, no. So Malthus isn't being proven right, at this very moment.

Emissary, you're on the right track, but you need to calm down a bit. You believe what you are spouting so fervently that you can't see the smallest possibility you might be wrong. And you have the tendency to take any question as a need to justify your worldview. I've stated so many times I agree with you, its silly.

I bring up Malthus because dude was wrong, and for the moment, the future he predicted has never come to pass.

Well ok i may sound like i am foaming at the mouth whilst typing but i am actually pretty chilled. The fact of the matter is I don't know what going to happen. But i have been studying peak oil for 7 years or so and the outcome doesn't look good. The only way i can prepare as a human is to inform people around me about the worst case scenario. I am a firm believer in prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Throughout my life that little saying has saved my life a number of time whilst mountain walking. I'm not pessimistic i'm just practical.

[ethios4]

titty bars are boring but conspiracy theories aren't. I would not want your life.

I'm sending you the bill for cleaning off the oatmeal I just spewed all over my monitor!

[Emissary]

or as many titty bars as you want!! which would probably get boring too.

you really are Ralph Wiggum, aren't you?

titty bars are boring but conspiracy theories aren't. I would not want your life.

Another brilliant post dude. keep knocking them out of the park.

[milfhuntr]

Well back to my Indiana example. There are religious people here who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old like the Bible says. I try to tell them that under their feet are the shells of creatures from a tropical sea, resulting in the famous Indiana limestone. Then on top of that are wooly mammoth bones that lived on a frozen tundra. All this took lots and lots of time and monumental weather changes. So I tell them the evidence is under their feet. I say the same thing to the Marxists - er- the "Greens" is their new name. They still have the same goal, an anti-industrial revolution. And they are as irrational as someone denying the age of the earth and inventing their own science like the "creationists" do.

So tell me, who changed the weather when man was not here? Realize that we could go back to candles and living in squalor, covered in boils and fleas in a pre-industrial age and the weather would continue to change. We could have children begging and starving in massive famines like they did before Ford, Vanderbilt, and Edison came along with their life giving engines and electicity and the weather would continue to change. We could drink bacteria laden water from a stream and get diarrhea all day long . . . but the weather would continue to change over our cold disheveled heads.

And we have the weakness, the utter helplessness in a shuddering heap to suggest that restraining liberty of man in a collective cluster fu*k of an anti-industrial revolution is some kind of solution. Not for me.

[Green Lemon]

The problem isn't that the weather is changing. The problem is the rate of change, which is exponentially greater than anything this planet has ever seen before.

[milfhuntr]

The problem isn't that the weather is changing. The problem is the rate of change, which is exponentially greater than anything this planet has ever seen before.

Only you and Al Gore believe that claptrap. I think you are merely innocent. You probably believe the government acutally cares about the environment and that we have some power over it. The truth is that this is part of an anti-industrial revolution in which every crisis is seen as a chance for more totalitarian government and collectivisation of the masses into a beehive or anthill.

It didn't stop them when in the 70's they said we were headed into an ice age due to man's activities and they were dead wrong. They weren't embarrased because the crisis doesn't matter. All they needed was a new crisis to push for more anti-industrialist socialism. Now they have a new crisis and they are being proven, day by day, to be dead wrong again.

Look a little deeper my friend.

[ethios4]

Whether its happening now or in 20 years, peak oil will solve global warming (if its caused by humans).

Every nation imposes a carbon tax, with penalty tariffs for noncompliance. Part of the tax is cash refunds to offset fuel purchases by the poor. Part of it is R+D money for renewables development.

And how are you going to get every nation to comply? Any nation that does not comply has an advantage over compliant nations. That's why developing countries don't want the environmental restrictions they want to place on developed nations. It's redistribution of wealth by force of government.