STILL no aftertouch in live? not yet fit for max hosting?

[muchachotron]

forgive me if i am jumping to conclusions, but at VERSION 8(!), can live still not receive poly aftertouch messages from the crusty old midi protocol?

i'm building a custom handler in max4live for my td20, and it uses aftertouch to send the cymbal choke messages. i have a max midi selector (lifted from the example from the help) within a max midi effect in a live track -- it is receiving notes and cc values just fine, but aftertouch is ignored. i've set the aftertouch attribute to 1 in the midi selector object.

this is just sad, can we please get aftertouch support in live? at the very least, pass it through live for max to handle?

does anyone know of a workaround for this? am i off base asking for aftertouch to be implemented in a very successful and popular (and midi-friendly) music production application? maybe add it in as part of the company's "let's fix what's broken before selling a new version" push?

again, i apologize if i am simply doing something wrong and this is working for others.

[muchachotron]

in the max for live documentation, "max for live for pluggo developers":

"Live does not currently support polyphonic aftertouch (received by the polyin~ object)."

gosh, that sucks.

[vicz]

If you can't live with it, why don't you buy a full copy of Max, or use another DAW, rather than cross-posting your pathetic whinging all over the forum?

[muchachotron]

well, uppity trolls like vicz require more explanation, i guess:

i have the full copy of max, as well as other DAW software. i am looking for an elegant solution to stay within the new max for live environment, which i also paid for. i understood before even making my post that i could build my own workaround with max stand alone. i have a valid concern, and your negative guff helps absolutely nothing. i posted in 2 forum sub groups because the issue is relevant to both max4live handling, and to live itself (the presence of m4l has no bearing on this problem). many live users that may experience the same shortcoming may never venture into the m4l discussions.

who's more pathetic -- myself, looking to resolve a legitimate functionality gap of my favorite software, or you, taking the precious time out of your clearly awesome, non-pathetic life to make a worthless post to my thread? look, i even posted a follow up, in both of my posts ("all over the forum", in your wise words) stating that live flat out doesn't support the feature, to save people time that may also be in my same situation.

your new vocabulary word of the day: obtuse

[vicz]

You are mistaking me for someone who gives a stuff about your life

[muchachotron]

no, no mistake -- you clearly have an personal interest in continuing the derailment of this thread. if you are so apathetic, maybe learn not to phrase your drivel in the form of a question...

speweth vicz:

If you can't live with it, why don't you buy a full copy of Max, or use another DAW, rather than cross-posting your pathetic whinging all over the forum?

[vicz]

Try posting in English, people might understand you.

[henke]

This is a forum for Max For Live, please consider the rules of this forum, thank you.

As far as the original topic is concerned: Yes, there are limits in the way Live handles MIDI, and those limits are obviously a valid concern for some of you. There are reasons for this limitations, and they are beyond a 'simple fix'. However, your wishes are noted. For now, you'll have to find a workaround.

Cheers, Robert

[josquin2000]

Although I do not want to make light of this obvious failing of Live for muchachotron..
i have to point out:
polyphonic key based aftertouch has always seemed to me to be the 'black sheep' of midi data: it is transmitted and parsed differently than other midi data, the implementations of it are not at all "standard", in the sense that every synth manufacturer seems to treat the values slightly differently...just look at the use the use: muchachotron is trying to work with
"my td20, and it uses aftertouch to send the cymbal choke messages."..
hmmmm...oh yeah, cymbal choke is in *everybody's* mind when asked what poly aftertouch in MIDI is used for...

So, you are using an implementation of a part of the MIDI protocol that is implemented quite rarely, almost always in a proprietary way for a hardware specific use.

so it does not surprise nor bother me as much as you that Live has punted on this "lost train" of MIDI ... their devices don't implement it, and rare indeed would be the software implementation of any midi responsive plugin that implemented a poly aftertouch handler.

to sum up, i guess this will just have to wait for now...you have my sympathy, but i
hope we all eventually get away from having to worry about specific hardware MIDI implemention issues...

just my tuppence, yer mileage will almost certainly vary.
l&k
j2k aka cfb

[muchachotron]

sorry robert, i'm done "conversing" with vicz. don't know what came over me. back on target. luckily, the other thread in the general live discussion has been a positive exchange:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=134708

i agree, the poly aftertouch is not a common need, and is complex to process compared to other midi information, but ultimately that is what makes m4l so appealing -- we are now empowered to bend live to our will as artists and developers . i understand that m4l is new and we'll see how it grows. i'm happy that mr. henke has taken note of my grievance. i know that cycling74 and ableton are both very considerate and responsive regarding customer requests.

on to the workaround...

[timeline85]

Who cares about how the hardware implements it? All the sequencer has to do is recognize and record the data. Cakewalk V1 did this, what's the big deal?

Or at the very least let the data pass through! Someone actually had to code Live to ignore the PolyAT messages, why? Have live not do anything with the data, but let us record and pass it through the channel so we can route it to M4L and the VST plugins that actually use the data (Access Virus Powercore does this, as do several other soft synths).

[Rob Gretton]

forgive me if i am jumping to conclusions, but at VERSION 8(!), can live still not receive poly aftertouch messages from the crusty old midi protocol?

Hi muchachotron,

Know what you mean. I feel pretty peeved at the ongoing lack of SysEx implementation. Don't even get me started on the lack of multichannel MIDI in M4L - talk about overlooking a key functional requirement!

It does seem weird that 10 years after retiring my Atari, there are things I could do with custom MIDI maps in Cubase 3.2 that I can't do in Live 8.1/M4L.


Anyway... wouldn't surprise me if Bome's MIDI Translator Pro would put you on the right track.

I've only just picked it up myself, but from seeing what other people have been using it for (notably S4racen) it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it would fix your issue.

To record poly pressure, put MTPro between your td20 and Live's MIDI input to convert the messages to an acceptable CC# and recorded as normal automation.

Switch that for playback, CC# -> poly pressure on the Live output.

Keep us posted.

Rob

[S4racen]

I'm indeed using some bomes and some max4live in my setup currently.....

Cheers
D