What Cakewalk is Doin is Straight Gangsta... :(

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:04 pm

drez wrote:
I think the Ableton folk will just continue to raise the bar while the rest catch up.

Ableton shouldn't get caught up in some feature race though. they should concentrate on making their app the best in what it does. improve the warp engine, add missing features, stay focussed on the core of what is Live.

releasing lots of buggy add-ons and features would kill Ableton eventually.

toneroll · Post by **toneroll** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:14 pm

@ hoffman2k

what do you mean i had to be there? i bought live , and now i'm here, try and understand what i said before you start blabbin..... i said the operator isn't worth the money and should be free, do you get that statement?

i also said that with this release from cakewalk , the distinguishing difference between the 2 apps is that ableton charge you extra for their "vsti's" if you can call it that ... i know i dont have to buy it, but i do if i want to use it....

@ me -> (i'll save you the typin for your operator tweakin, you'll need it)

why am i bothered about not being able to use it then?

well it might come in usefull for this or that little noise or bell , but the main gripe is the principal of it , the downright cheek.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:43 pm

toneroll wrote:@ hoffman2k

what do you mean i had to be there? i bought live , and now i'm here, try and understand what i said before you start blabbin..... i said the operator isn't worth the money and should be free, do you get that statement?

i also said that with this release from cakewalk , the distinguishing difference between the 2 apps is that ableton charge you extra for their "vsti's" if you can call it that ... i know i dont have to buy it, but i do if i want to use it....

@ me -> (i'll save you the typin for your operator tweakin, you'll need it)

why am i bothered about not being able to use it then?

well it might come in usefull for this or that little noise or bell , but the main gripe is the principal of it , the downright cheek.

I guess we both have different views on the principal.
I'm pretty sure that getting the operator will pay itself in tenfold for me. So far i have always gotten what i wanted from Ableton.
Live is like 1 feature away of kicking Absynth square in the balls.

We'll see how it turns out...

What i meant with "you had to be there" is that i cant find the thread where they asked us and we replied.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:09 am

Hey Hoffman2k,
If you had to describe that one feature, what do you think it might be? In my eyes you've proven yourself to be quite resourceful with what you have, so I am really sort of intrigued with what you would like to see thrown in the mix. Though at this point I would not be surprised with a Poltically Correct (in regards to the forum) request for more efficiency (or something along the lines,) but please excuse me, if I am not curious with what one of the established Live-Forum-Gurus would want as a feature.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:18 am

LOFA wrote:Hey Hoffman2k,
If you had to describe that one feature, what do you think it might be? In my eyes you've proven yourself to be quite resourceful with what you have, so I am really sort of intrigued with what you would like to see thrown in the mix. Though at this point I would not be surprised with a Poltically Correct (in regards to the forum) request for more efficiency (or something along the lines,) but please excuse me, if I am not curious with what one of the established Live-Forum-Gurus would want as a feature.

I should have been careful with saying one feature

It's a big one....

The ability to save instruments/effects/tracks/routings as one patch.

It would kick any soft synths ass, because any soft synth could be part of the preset.
It would also be great for educational purposes.....

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:56 pm

The one thing that Ableton has over the competition is a staff that really understands modern electronic music. It's this experience that led them to Live in the first place and it's this experience that will continue to keep them ahead of the competition. Cakewalk and Steinberg have a lot more manpower but they don't have the likes of Henke and Kleine pointing them forward.

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:07 pm

The one thing that Ableton has over the competition is a staff that really understands modern electronic music. It's this experience that led them to Live in the first place and it's this experience that will continue to keep them ahead of the competition. Cakewalk and Steinberg have a lot more manpower but they don't have the likes of Henke and Kleine pointing them forward.

Stellar Point!

This really does make a major difference when the developers are part of the scene/culture/enviroment/ where their product is going to be used.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:29 pm

I've been thinking about this whole imitation / coat tail riding thing...

Microsoft made the decision to ditch the whole year-orientated OS name thing- Win95, etc. When they made the shift, what did they choose to call their new OS? They said hey, lets put a big ole' X in there!

Geez, I wonder why?????????????

I can ony imagine the next incarnation of XP will be called:
Microsoft OSXP G7!

klarky · Post by **klarky** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:56 pm

i tried project 5 v1 before i came to ableton, it was good as a replacement for reason, as it was easier to use, but ableton is even easier and very intuitive to use, so they can copy it all they want but i doubt it will be as good to use.
to be honest every cakewalk product ive tried has been over my head, at least live has a gentle learning curve at the start but is still powerful enough to do a hell of a lot more!!!

compatiton is healthy, as someone mentioned - just means we may see some more options we wanted in live 4.2!!!

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:05 am

hoffman2k wrote: If you can't make decent tracks without PDC, then i pity your lack of creativity.

a truer thing has never been said.

lm

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:15 am

louZ wrote: releasing lots of buggy add-ons and features would kill Ableton eventually.

yep, look at Cubase SX3,
compared to SX2, its a freaking pig when it comes to resources. SX3 can run only about 75 to 80% of the plugins SX2 can before it craps out. By that i mean for example 7 or 8 reverbs in SX3 vs. 10 in SX2, etc.

Funny thing is, it seems Cubase was trying to catch up to apps similar to Ableton (maybe Ableton and Logic both) and look how it screwed them.
With version 4 of Live, i was able to run MORE fx plugins than v.3

heh.

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:12 am

AdamJay wrote:
louZ wrote: releasing lots of buggy add-ons and features would kill Ableton eventually.
yep, look at Cubase SX3,
compared to SX2, its a freaking pig when it comes to resources. SX3 can run only about 75 to 80% of the plugins SX2 can before it craps out. By that i mean for example 7 or 8 reverbs in SX3 vs. 10 in SX2, etc.

interesting point. maybe the warp engine is to blame?

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:17 am

louZ wrote:
interesting point. maybe the warp engine is to blame?

hard to say. thats such a huge hit for something that doesnt require the warp engine.
the same performance hit is exhibited in vst instruments.

either way, its definitely not a good thing.
Not when you can just rewire Live to SX2, not pay an upgrade fee, and get really good performance.
heh.

Architect · Post by **Architect** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:21 am

Ableton Live IS STILL THE KING of these types of apps, no matter who comes out with a close replica with similar features or even more features. This is what it means to be the KING other people will imitate, that's part of the fame. I'll still use Live no matter what you can't beat the workflow, the groove, the intuitiveness, the flexibility, I could careless what additional features Project 5 offers.

I'm ready to see Ableton kick their ass in on the next release.

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:12 am

Sales Dude McBoob wrote:I've been thinking about this whole imitation / coat tail riding thing...

Microsoft made the decision to ditch the whole year-orientated OS name thing- Win95, etc. When they made the shift, what did they choose to call their new OS? They said hey, lets put a big ole' X in there!

Geez, I wonder why?????????????

I can ony imagine the next incarnation of XP will be called:
Microsoft OSXP G7!

Wow lay off the weed - how paranoid can you be sheeeeesh .
Did you take the tin foil hat off too come out and type this one also ?