israel attacks gaza bound aid flotilla.

[smartass303]

The IDF as expected have released videos of figures attacking soldiers, two different ones, and not a single headshot of course... just saying.
Great article on the whole thing here:

http://www.uscatholic.org/blog/2010/05/ ... vi-marmara

Ultimately however deciding which side did what on the deck of the Mavi Marmara at 4:30 a.m. hardly matters. The responsibility for this debacle begins and ends with the senior IDF military who "planned" the early morning assault and the political leadership that OKed the operation. It's hard to believe that the humanitarian flotilla could have not been deterred or otherwise handled without recourse to a predawn helicopter raid in international waters.

dude,
its very easy to bash the israelis all the time for everything. when you dont live down there. i mean israel is a sovereign state, a bunch of people wanted to fool them the hard way and the decision makers tried play the hardliner, boo-hoo. uncool. people died. a tragedy.
i stopped blaming it on the israelis

[oddtones001]

I am sick and tired of tacit approval from the U.S. government and the so called "liberal" media for everything Israel does. The U.S. provides hardware, money, and support. I'm tired of tax dollars going to Israel, especially mine, because I don't buy into that religious horseshit that perpetuates this never ending bloodbath. Israel has been a country for over 60 years who is able to take care of itself. I don't approve of how Israel came to be, but I do support their right to exist. If you grew up in the U.S. and watched the news once in awhile you might think the Palestinians invented terrorism. Just look up King David Hotel bombing in 1946. Menachem Begin and the boys did a pretty nasty job on some innocents. I guess they were bombing their way into existence. Too involved to go into so look it up and see for yourself. Israel doesn't need our assistance. Those badass motherfuckers can take care of themselves. They kicked the living shit out of every nation in the region that has fucked with them. I don't like innocent citizens of Israel being murdered either. God's Chosen People need to back the fuck off. The U.S. will never condemn Israel in a serious manner. That would be political suicide for any politician who speaks out because of the Leo Strauss/Old Testament/Neo-Cons who need the Jewish vote at home. Malaria and Religion: History's #1 and # 2 causes of death. My plan for defeating terrorism by Islamic zealots who attack America: Stop supporting Israel, let them stand on their own, and the announce to the world that if we are attacked after that we will trace back to where an attack on the U.S. originates and after verification and determination beyond a shadow of doubt, the U.S. will turn your country to glass. We will destroy your infrastructure, communications, airfields, weapons and hardware, livestock, food sources, and we will not stop until every fucking living thing with a heartbeat is fucking dead as a fucking door nail, With love, The Americans.

[djsynchro]

War needs to be waged or military hardware doesn't get sold. And military hardware is one industry where the USA still reigns supreme.When there are major conflicts, major money is being made, and the taxpayer pays for it.

[djsynchro]

From that article...

If history is a guide the Israeli military will conduct a thorough review of this morning's massacre before clearing itself on all counts and accusing any contradicting investigations of anti-Semitism.

word!

[leedsquietman]

Bart Simpson, fictional cartoon character

"eat my shorts"

Pete Doherty, Babyshambles and celebrity junkie

"Get me Amy Winehouse and some smack and let the fun begin ..."

I feel so blessed that we have so many people with first hand knowledge of the Middle Eastern conflict who don't need to Google what Turkey and the Palestinians say to the media (who obviously never twist or distort anything to their own agenda, so speak the truth and nothing but the truth ...) Having such superior intimate first hand knowledge from the horse's mouth is so valuable, it's wonderful that we don't have to speculate and second guess based on people who have biased and misinformed opinions or corrupt media. This forum rules

[Machinesworking]

dude,
its very easy to bash the israelis all the time for everything. when you dont live down there. i mean israel is a sovereign state,

A sovereign state that hasn't played by the rules for a long time now, a rouge nation if you will. Doesn't always have to be some despot or some anti democratic government that goes directly against UN rules, it can and has been in the past be nations that have democracies, just scare the populace enough and they'll go along with any moves their military makes.
BTW if I lived there I would be a refusenik no doubt, come from a long line of people who are critical of their own and other governments.

Let's face facts, the Israeli government and military have a vested interest in assimilating the territories, nice clean borders etc. Why anybody can't see this is beyond me? The Israeli people and rest of the planet get in the way a bit though, some aren't at all for pushing natives out, they can't just be upfront about it. so we get this constant agitation from both sides, but let's be honest about what this is all about. It's really as silly as thinking Iraq was about anything but oil. The US has ignored and supported far too many dictators just as evil as Saddam to think otherwise.

@ leedsquietman you add nothing to the table, but then have you ever in political discussions?

[sporkles]

Like I already said, this will blow over in a matter of weeks. What was that thing that happened where Israel
invaded whatever some time ago? I guess it blew over.

The UN can "condemn" Israel's actions forever: it doesn't change a thing.

There are two things that would bring about change, though:
1) state sanctioned boycott (including the US - fat chance).
2) a UN controlled buffer zone along the "borders", which would be beneficial to both sides (even though
Israel would most surely protest): it could stop illegal Israeli settlements as well as attacks on Israel.

The latter would be a huge leap towards a two state solution.

[leedsquietman]

When I see some properly informed political discussion going on, from people who have direct first hand knowledge of the subject, who have lived it and breathed it, instead of following opinions from people who have never set foot in the Middle East, have no Israeli nor Palestine background and just copy The Guardian or rent-a-google quotes I might be tempted to follow more closely.

Until then ...

[dna598]

There are some smartass apologists on here. Anything to do with a guilty conscience perhaps?

[dazzer]

When I see some properly informed political discussion going on, from people who have direct first hand knowledge of the subject, who have lived it and breathed it, instead of following opinions from people who have never set foot in the Middle East, have no Israeli nor Palestine background and just copy The Guardian or rent-a-google quotes I might be tempted to follow more closely.

Until then ...

If your point was "Why post this on a music forum, virtually everyone here agrees, what are we going to achieve discussing it?" then maybe it would be fair comment. But no, what you actually appear to be saying is "Don't post it because you're not Israeli/Palestinian" which to me, makes no sense at all.

Am I missing something here?

[LoopStationZebra]

meh.

The folks who planned the relief effort were morons. Or masterful manipulators.

Why weren't UN representatives on board? Why weren't members of ANY media outlet invited on board? How about the Red Cross? Would the IDF have boarded and attacked with a flotilla full of AP reporters? Prolly not. This was a calculated move. They fucking well knew that the IDF doesn't mess around. It is, after all, THE IDF, is it not? ffs.

Here you had an EPIC opportunity for a real statement and stand against oppression that could have been fully witnessed and documented and....once again...the opportunity is blown in favor of some sort of cowboy relief mission in which they knew some would die (in addition, the flotilla should not have had so much as a fucking steak knife on board.). They are banking on sympathy and outrage over those deaths,and they've gotten it - from those who were already sympathetic and outraged. Fail.

[derzai]

The Armenian holocaust has never happened

We will continue the systematical torture of Turkish Kurds

[smartass303]

dude,
its very easy to bash the israelis all the time for everything. when you dont live down there. i mean israel is a sovereign state,

A sovereign state that hasn't played by the rules for a long time now, a rouge nation if you will. Doesn't always have to be some despot or some anti democratic government that goes directly against UN rules, it can and has been in the past be nations that have democracies, just scare the populace enough and they'll go along with any moves their military makes.
BTW if I lived there I would be a refusenik no doubt, come from a long line of people who are critical of their own and other governments.

Let's face facts, the Israeli government and military have a vested interest in assimilating the territories, nice clean borders etc. Why anybody can't see this is beyond me? The Israeli people and rest of the planet get in the way a bit though, some aren't at all for pushing natives out, they can't just be upfront about it. so we get this constant agitation from both sides, but let's be honest about what this is all about. It's really as silly as thinking Iraq was about anything but oil. The US has ignored and supported far too many dictators just as evil as Saddam to think otherwise.

@ leedsquietman you add nothing to the table, but then have you ever in political discussions?

you sound as if you have lived there, no wait, you sound like everyone else who thinks he knows a shit about the problems down there.

i just said that i dont know a shit and its too easy to blame everything on the israelis.

303

[derzai]

I suggest we sent the people of Palestine to the Republic of Ireland

to Cork?

[derzai]

War needs to be waged or military hardware doesn't get sold. And military hardware is one industry where the USA still reigns supreme.When there are major conflicts, major money is being made, and the taxpayer pays for it.

Computers being a spin-off of these efforts, including the one that you are using.

Dont get me wrong Synchro, I'm aware this world is one big military industrial complex.

When I was young I refused the military draft, which was mandatory at the time.

(Erkend Gewetensbezwaarde Militaire Dienst, zo noemen ze dat)

But I cant exclude myself from this world, how much I would like to do.

And at times, that can be frustrating.