Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jimfisheye
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:45 pm

Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by jimfisheye » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:13 am

This has got some really serious bugs in it. The midi controlability is really ambitious but the basic audio engine needs to be redesigned from the ground up. This program has the ability to run for hours without issue and then turn around and completely crash and quit. It actually quit while recording! Not just drop a few samples or bytes and give a warning. Full out crash without first even saving the audio file in progress. Absolute epic failure!
For the record the crashing is not related to high cpu usage bursts either.
Clearly the Ableton team is still really green. If they get some serious help with the basic audio engine functionality they could really have a neat product. As it stands it could be useful for creativity in the studio. Do not even consider using this in public performance of any kind though.

luddy
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by luddy » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:32 am

did it general a crash report that you can send in? if so, it should have appeared when you re-started Live.
-Luddy

esky
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by esky » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:00 am

Thank you for this statement, jimfisheye! We have all waited for such a clear message. You openend our eyes...we now all know what to do...!!!

rikki
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by rikki » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:17 am

jimfisheye wrote:Do not even consider using this in public performance of any kind though.
*rushes off to let plastikman know*

:/
'the truly wise man does not play leapfrog with the unicorn'

dum
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by dum » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:34 am

Richie Hawtin is a CATEGORY A shill and an enormous ponce.

about as trustworthy as Ronald McDonald.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

LeifonMars
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by LeifonMars » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:45 am

jimfisheye wrote:Do not even consider using this in public performance of any kind though.
Oh snap, I guess many of us have to cancel shows for a while now, since there is no other daw, or sequencing instrument if you like, that would allow performing the way Live does. And since it's clear, that you're seasoned veteran at this matter, I guess I have to take your advice, even though Live hasn't let me down at any gig just yet. But I'm sure, since you know much better than I, that the day will come, and I'll be crying oh why I just didn't jump the PT wagon instead.
MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

posssu
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by posssu » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:39 am

jimfisheye wrote:This has got some really serious bugs in it. The midi controlability is really ambitious but the basic audio engine needs to be redesigned from the ground up. This program has the ability to run for hours without issue and then turn around and completely crash and quit. It actually quit while recording! Not just drop a few samples or bytes and give a warning. Full out crash without first even saving the audio file in progress. Absolute epic failure!
For the record the crashing is not related to high cpu usage bursts either.
Clearly the Ableton team is still really green. If they get some serious help with the basic audio engine functionality they could really have a neat product. As it stands it could be useful for creativity in the studio. Do not even consider using this in public performance of any kind though.
This happens to me when my computer runs totally out of memory. Slight freeze while recording and then quit. Check your memory!
Juhana Lehtiniemi - Film composer with Ableton Live

distaudio
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by distaudio » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:49 pm

Can we start talking about Abletons business model too?

That always brings all the boys to the yard.

*cough*

leedsquietman
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by leedsquietman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:43 pm

let's also not bring the sound quality argument up in this thread for the ten thousandth time in a month on at least 3 long running threads, otherwise I will explode into violence and put my size 14s up your chutney channel and knock you right out - do you like eating hospital food, sucking it through a straw ?

Image
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

crofter
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by crofter » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:56 pm

Ableton is useless, I bought it ages ago and it hasn't done anything yet it just fucking sits there, after spending all that money I don't expect to have to help it out.
Core2 quad q660, 4gig ram, Win 7 home premium SP1.
P4 2.8 ghz, Gigabyte GA- 81E2004P, 1.5 gig ram,XP Home, SP3.
dual core pentium laptop 2 gig ram Win 8.
MOTU 8Pre,Tascam FW-1804,Zoom R16, Ableton live 8.4
Cubase 7

arafel
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by arafel » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:17 pm

OP - post your set up and system specs (maybe use our profile info area, so that you dont have to type it every time).

And.. what version of Live?

And..if your using a crappy Dell, well its to be expected :wink:
2.8ghz Quad PowerMac, Fa-66 using optical link, Live 9.72, Remote25, Maschine, Samson 65a.

leedsquietman
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Location: greater toronto area

Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by leedsquietman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:34 pm

Both of my Dell machines run Live, Cubase, Reaper, Renoise, Soundforge and all the vsts I own just fine ...

(we really need a facepalm icon for doofus statements like the last one ...)

Here's a rather sexy and pertinent one ...

Image
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

crofter
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by crofter » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:45 pm

Nowt wrong with my Dell either
Core2 quad q660, 4gig ram, Win 7 home premium SP1.
P4 2.8 ghz, Gigabyte GA- 81E2004P, 1.5 gig ram,XP Home, SP3.
dual core pentium laptop 2 gig ram Win 8.
MOTU 8Pre,Tascam FW-1804,Zoom R16, Ableton live 8.4
Cubase 7

jimfisheye
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:45 pm

Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by jimfisheye » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:59 pm

Ha ha, can't blame this on windows or dell but that's certainly a fair guess without any other info! Sorry, that was the 3am version. Here's the rest:

dual 2.6GHz Macbook Pro, 4GB ram, 48GB SSD HD (system+apps), 500GB SATA HD (data)
(2) MOTU 828mk3 audio interfaces (16 digital inputs from Apogee AD16 + 8 inputs from MOTU analog inputs, output SPDIF to Apogee PSX-100 DA)

Testing the system:
Over the course of 5 days I made a number of test runs:
-Ableton Live v8.1
-buffer 64 samples
-running a live mix with (24 inputs + 4 fx channels), Waves SSL channel strip on every channel, 3 Waves H-Delays, 1 Lexicon reverb
-recording the 28 channels of 24 bit 48k audio
-dubbing like crazy on 3 delays the whole time (Waves H-Delays)
-controlling the MBP with a Macbook running Remote Desktop along with a uc-33e midi controller
-running this setup many times for at least 3 hours at a time
-this uses a steady 80% CPU with peaks up to 90% and 3GB ram - plenty of headroom left for a Mac

I can understand dropping a sample or a byte or 2 once in a blue moon (it's happened with Digital Performer only 3 times in 10 years of making 1000's of recordings) but to quit without saving the file is inexcusable. This along with the extremely crude audio file handling ability makes me conclude that Ableton are really in over their heads with the audio engine.

The ambitious midi controllability of this attracted me so I gave this a shot. I never expected to be able to do any post production mixing but wanted to give it a shot for live mixing.
Bugs found so far:
-Will randomly crash and quit not related to cpu or memory load. Files will NOT be saved properly when this happens and you will be forced to manually recover them from your hard drive - VERY time consuming.
-Sometimes after recalling a session, all the plugins will be disabled even though the enabled button is still lit. Workaround: Turn them all off and back on again.

Bottom line:
This software really appears to not be even alpha stage yet. Great idea for the midi controllability but the audio engine is practically DOA. This could be a useful and creative tool in a studio setting but don't consider using this live in front of an audience if you don't want a really embarrassing catastrophe.

hoffman2k
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Re: Ableton Live not ready for prime time

Post by hoffman2k » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:09 pm

jimfisheye wrote: -Ableton Live v8.1
8.1.what?

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