Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

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tomjordan
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by tomjordan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:59 pm

Greetings,

I'm working on a patch to send microtonal tuning adjustments to a monophonic sound via pitch bend.
The notes that are played on a MIDI keyboard go directly from the Max midiin to the midiout to Live.
Running parallel to this, the pitch class (0 to 11) of the current note being played is detected,
and a single pitch bend event is sent out (via midiformat) for each noteon,
(the value of which is determined by the pitch class and a selected tuning).

Whenever I disconnect the pitch bend generating explained above, everything works fine.
As soon as I turn it on, however, just about every other note gets stuck.
I've tried delaying the pitch bend event a little, that doesn't make a difference..
I even tried sending a bang to midiflush every time a noteoff is detected, and that has no effect.
Midiflush won't turn the notes off for this, even if I try to activate it manually with a bang button ! :(

I've spent about 10 hours making this patch, and about 4 more hours trying to debug it now,
and I'm getting nowhere... it really should be working, as far as I can tell..
I'm wondering if there is a known bug, or if it would be better off writing an external using Java using something else entirely?


If someone wants to check this out, paste the code posted below into a blank "Max MIDI Effect" patch in Live
(before pasting the code, delete the default stuff that's there).

To get to see the GUI in Live's window:
you may need to first right click anywhere on the grey workspace background of the Max patch in edit mode, to open the Patcher Inspector.
Then click on the "Open in Presentation" check box.
Close the inspector, and click on the "Presentation Mode" button at the bottom of the Max window.
Scroll up to where the only collection of objects is, and select the whole collection together, preserving their relative layout.
While it's selected, use the arrow keys to fit it into the upper left corner of the Max patch..
(move it so that it is just about flush with the top of the window, and the left of the window in the top-left corner).
This will make it all visible in the Live track after it's saved.
(for some reason, the code-paste method doesn't preserve this layout, so this needs to be done manually).
Then save the patch in Max, close the patch to get to the Live track, then add in any soft synth to the right of it,
preferably a monophonic sound, and set the pitch bend range to 1 semitone.

The bang button in the lower left of the new Max tuning patch will reset all the keys' values to the starting scale set.
(a classical Indian scale... it should already be there anyways from loadbang).
To change the tuning of any note, first enter the denominator of the interval ratio in the corresponding box on the keyboard note,
then enter the numerator (enter the numerator last so that it triggers the calculation).
After pressing enter, you will see the difference in cents from that note in the box below the denominator,
and below that, the difference in pitch bend steps (anywhere from -8192 to +8192).
For this to work properly, the interval ratio you enter must not differ by more that a semitone in either direction
from the chosen keyboard note, since a semitone is the max pitch bend range.
So the best thing to do is to figure out which note of the chromatic scale is closest to the interval
you want to create, and use the boxes for that key on the keyboard...

This patch should be very helpful once it can get working. :lol:
It would make it able to play any octave-based microtonal scales on synths that don't have microtuning.. (like Massive, for one..)

You can save all the values for any new scale you enter, by shift clicking on a dot in the preset object on the left of the patch.
The Live box above it will select from any of the presets stored, and that can be automated,
so that the tunings can change automatically in the middle of a Live set, just from a single parameter automation.
The only problem is that the presets don't get stored with the Live set for some reason,
and they would need to be entered in again each time you open the set.
Does anyone know a way around this? It seems kind of redundant having a preset object that doesn't work right.
(I know it was from Max originally, but we need to find a way to make it work with Live now..)


Please let me know if you have any questions or comments...


Regards,

Tom Jordan





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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>
Mac Pro, Live 8 suite, APC40, Keystation Pro, Max for Live, Logic Pro 8, V-Station, Komplete 5, Ruby & Lisp interpreters in Max, C++ and Java externals for Max.

broc
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by broc » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:57 pm

Does the patch work properly in Max standalone?

tomjordan
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by tomjordan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:51 pm

Good question.. I didn't consider that yet because the patch is for sending MIDI to an instrument in Live...
but that would be a very good thing to check.. I will as soon as I get home later.. thanks !
Mac Pro, Live 8 suite, APC40, Keystation Pro, Max for Live, Logic Pro 8, V-Station, Komplete 5, Ruby & Lisp interpreters in Max, C++ and Java externals for Max.

tomjordan
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by tomjordan » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:31 am

Yes, unfortunately it's still doing the same thing in Max standalone.

I'm hoping that there is something that I'm overlooking, but the premise of it is so simple that I can't see what could be wrong.
I'm just adding in one single pitch bend event for each note played.
If the pitch bend wheel on the keyboard was being used, it would work, and there would be many more pitch bend events...
I'm wondering, has anyone else has experienced this?
Mac Pro, Live 8 suite, APC40, Keystation Pro, Max for Live, Logic Pro 8, V-Station, Komplete 5, Ruby & Lisp interpreters in Max, C++ and Java externals for Max.

broc
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by broc » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:46 am

I've just checked the behavior of [midiformat] for pitchbend and found it quite strange/buggy.
For values less than 64 it seems to send invalid midi messages corrupting the midiout object.
That would explain the problems with your patch.

But anyway, for a resolution of 16384 values you need to use the [xbendout] object instead.
It accepts values from 0..16383, where center is 8192.
Of course, you can still work with 0 as center, but must add 8192 before sending to xbendout.

tomjordan
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by tomjordan » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:09 am

Wow ! Thanks a million... that's really good news.
going to try that out ASAP and post the patch again once it works.
Mac Pro, Live 8 suite, APC40, Keystation Pro, Max for Live, Logic Pro 8, V-Station, Komplete 5, Ruby & Lisp interpreters in Max, C++ and Java externals for Max.

tomjordan
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by tomjordan » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:08 am

It works like a charm !

Here's the updated patch. The instructions for using it and getting the GUI to show up correctly in Live are posted at the top of the thread.
Also included with this version is a musical interval calculator on the right of the patch
where you can try out different interval calculations before plugging them into the tuning set on the left.

Cheers,

Tom


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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>
Mac Pro, Live 8 suite, APC40, Keystation Pro, Max for Live, Logic Pro 8, V-Station, Komplete 5, Ruby & Lisp interpreters in Max, C++ and Java externals for Max.

broc
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by broc » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:18 am

You're welcome.

But I think you could use just [xbendout] instead of [xbendout2], thus saving the div and mod operations.

Have you tried it?

tomjordan
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

Re: Stuck notes from midiformat/pitchbend. (A New Tuning Patch)

Post by tomjordan » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:20 pm

I did try that first and it didn't sound right, so I thought that it was changing the MSB only..
then after I hooked up [xbendout2] i realized that my synths pitch bend range was set to 2...
i changed it to one semitone and everything sounded good, so I left it..
I was so happy to have it working that I didn't make the connection that [xbendout] could do the trick by itself..
I'll have to try that later.. thanks again for the help.. i had already given up..
Mac Pro, Live 8 suite, APC40, Keystation Pro, Max for Live, Logic Pro 8, V-Station, Komplete 5, Ruby & Lisp interpreters in Max, C++ and Java externals for Max.

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