Bidule arp for synced use with Live

conny · Post by **conny** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:45 am

* Sliders with 16 note values (-24 to +24 semitones)
* Arp length variable from 2-16.
* Times from 1/32 to 1/1.
* Gate time may be scaled from 1 to 1/10.
* Up/down/up&down choice
* Repeat on/off (when off arp runs only once every note gate)
* Velocity scaling (note velocity may get lower/higher during arp run)

http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/Bidule/Li ... t_2.bidule

// C

mexique1 · Post by **mexique1** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:27 am

thanx... a lot ! exactly what i was looking for (tired to open energyXT inside bidule rewired to Live)

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:36 am

I've been toying with an idea.....

A harmonised arp....

You select the root of the harmony...
You set the intervals, i.e. 1,3,5,7 for a 7th chord arp.
Then the rhythm.....

You play a note on the keyboard....

The output is then created being diatonically correct.

Play C and a C Major 7th arp is played.
Play D and a D minor 7th arp....
Play G and a G dom 7th arp....
Play A and a A minor 7th arp....

But other than just chords, all intervals can be selected....

Play C and intervals are selected based on Ionian...
Play D and dorian...
G mixo-lydian...
etc....

To take it a step further, when you play notes not in the harmony
substitutions are used, thus you can play both diatonic harmonisation
based arps along with arps substituted from other keys.... Correctly not just
chromatic stuff... Play Db and you get a Db secondary dominant...

You think this could be done in bidule? or should I think of writting a VST?

-Ben

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:13 am

MrYellow wrote:I've been toying with an idea.....

A harmonised arp....

You select the root of the harmony...
You set the intervals, i.e. 1,3,5,7 for a 7th chord arp.
Then the rhythm.....

You play a note on the keyboard....

The output is then created being diatonically correct.

Play C and a C Major 7th arp is played.
Play D and a D minor 7th arp....
Play G and a G dom 7th arp....
Play A and a A minor 7th arp....

But other than just chords, all intervals can be selected....

Play C and intervals are selected based on Ionian...
Play D and dorian...
G mixo-lydian...
etc....

To take it a step further, when you play notes not in the harmony
substitutions are used, thus you can play both diatonic harmonisation
based arps along with arps substituted from other keys.... Correctly not just
chromatic stuff... Play Db and you get a Db secondary dominant...

You think this could be done in bidule? or should I think of writting a VST?

-Ben

Sounds like tha arp in an mc-909.
We should find us some math geeks. any rainmen around here?

Harris.Andrew · Post by **Harris.Andrew** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 am

Conny - thanks for posting!

MrYellow - one thing about bidule, is, you can nest a whole bidule structure in another as a single entity . . . so even complex things, you can break them down into simpler components. It's graphical, like a flowchart. I'm certain this can be done in bidule.

Seems like you could adapt a step-sequencer, and have the range for a step set by a function that output the desired note-mode. Managing this note-mode output function, I guess you could have another function that mapped each chromatic note to a particular note-mode - and I think here, is where the ability to tweak outside the root-major scale could be set.

Sounds, err . . . educational

conny · Post by **conny** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:55 am

A harmonized arp... shame on you, I spent a day and a night with this and now you are tempting me with more ideas

I fact I did som arp harmonics tests before doing this one and it's *just* a matter of labour to get it done.
The lazy approach would be to set up presets for the arp and let interval from root key determine chords, but... no, I don't like that idea... but I like the idea... but (my head aches -> don't combine Live and Bidule and to much beer...)

MrY - you do the VST, I do the Bidule. And we let them fight to death at dawn. And hoffman2k may sneak around to keep industry spies away.

// C

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:01 am

lol only problem with me doing the VST is it will be months b4 I get this
drummachine, the midi mixer for Live, and whatever code all done.
Considering I'm very lazy now-a-days.

Yeah I'm getting a picture of how you could setup a bunch of arps and
select/route them..... Can see a few ways u could skim it down a bit...

Love the arp btw.... Was trying to get Bidule happening in this department
last week.... Tried a few VSTs and stuff but didn't like any of it.... Solved
my lack of a good arp with no BS and tight sync.

-Ben

conny · Post by **conny** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:02 am

And yes, it's like we are thinking about some hybrid monster that combines arp and sequencer and some obscure logic that will make the monster dynamic in response to what is fed into it.
(Hm, reminds me of Golem...)
// C

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:11 am

conny wrote:And yes, it's like we are thinking about some hybrid monster that combines arp and sequencer and some obscure logic that will make the monster dynamic in response to what is fed into it.
(Hm, reminds me of Golem...)
// C

My Arp, my DAW. My precious........

I like where you guys are going with this. Even if Ableton would pop up with an arp. The work wouldn't have been for nothing.
Sounds like one hell of an arp sequencer you guys are thinking off.
I'm pretty sure bidule would be great for the task. But the maths go beyond me though.

Good luck

conny · Post by **conny** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:27 am

Some other things I would like:
* More rythm things in the arp plus "empty slots" (pauses)
* Some random probabilities
* Setting different channels for the steps
* A setting for piano arpeggiator type where note ons are offset like strumming but the note offs are kept together
* Enlarging the gates to make notes overlap

Now, Bidules GUI would be very cluttered... Imagine a channel, a individual gate, a vel, a random setting etc for each arp note.
They should at least implement tabs!
And, a lot of low level stuff makes Bidule quite CPU hungry I think.

And, crazy, but I am thinking about combining the logic of an arp with that of an CC producer and/or an envelope generator etc...
For instance:
* Have a attack phase - arp goes through some steps
* Decay - some other steps
* Hold - arp looping some steps
* Release - arp doing the last steps

More coffee... and I have to take my tranqualizer pills (true!, 1 and a half each day)... and have a long walk in the town not trying to look at traffic signs thinking "oh, that could be made to turn its face when cars are passing or change hight when children comes biking".

// C

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:28 am

Looking inside conny's arp makes me thing it's beyond me too

I can code in 7 languages but bidule confuses the hell outta me!

-Ben

conny · Post by **conny** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:37 am

Looking inside the arp is looking inside me - I'm blushing

In fact, the arp was built bottom up, the logic got very confused when I tried to do the up&down arp mode.
It's a bad design, really.
And with bad designs you are not so willing to tear it down, it will fall all over you.
A thing that bothers me is that I made it sync to bar. That's not so handy when you play notes from a keyboard, the arp will go through positions regarding to bar, not the actual note on, I think.
I'm afraid I met my limits as a designer in this layout...

Q: When doing a up&down mode and having say 4 steps, should that go 1,2,3,4,3,2,1,2,3,4 etc or 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4 etc? I didn't manage to do the first, but then it would be more like six stages in a run and not 8..?

// C

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:40 am

Just a thought.....
There is a perspective adjustment needed to deal with scales....

Instead of thinking of having C Major and D Major etc in separate setups
combined.... You have T T S T T T S setup in a table or whatever.... then
you just move the root relative.... and then 1,3,5,7 becomes 2,4,6,1 when
playing a II chord.... relative stuff...

-Ben

conny · Post by **conny** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:00 pm

Relative, yes. That's my thinking too.
And the arp uses relative values allready (+12 will be treated as cents 1200 and calculated as a frequency ratio when combined with the original midi note frequency).

// C

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:18 pm

Take a deep breath and count to ten.
Then lock yourself up untill you built a decent arp

How about this for an arp?

You draw in a sequence in a clip in Live. set it to "gate" mode
Send it to bidule.
If the sequence is in C. Then C must be the root key.
Every note up or down transposes the sequence +1 or -1

Instead of saving arp presets, you can export midiclips. (or import)

Am i making sense? Mind you. It's still early, so i'm not stoned enough to explain in detail.
Lets just say that using Live as a part of the arp. Would save allot of work. And add more options. (scale, chord,...)