8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

[RD444]

Thanks for you help

I have contacted support

[RD444]

Neil from novation got back to me after running some tests

here's what he found:

After looking into this further I have managed to get to the bottom of this issue.


Up until Automap 3.4.1, every Automap wrapped plug-in had an Automap UI (an extra border to the plug-in) which included a red 'A' that was used to dictate which plug-in had Automap focus. We had to remove this option in Automap 3.5 to allow us to add support for VST 3 and 64-bit plug-ins. The yellow spanner button is now used to dictate Automap focus which is why you lose focus when you click it. I have no idea why Side Kick 4 is working differently but it seems to be specific to that plug-in.


So, the issue is not that things worked differently in Live 8.1.3, but that worked differently in the previous version of Automap (3.4.1). If you would like a further demonstration of what I am stating, feel free to download 3.4.1, ensure the 'Use Automap UI' box is ticked in the plug-in manager, and you should see what I am referring to.

http://www.novationmusic.com/support/automap

[RD444]

Neil from novation got back to me after running some tests

here's what he found:

After looking into this further I have managed to get to the bottom of this issue.


Up until Automap 3.4.1, every Automap wrapped plug-in had an Automap UI (an extra border to the plug-in) which included a red 'A' that was used to dictate which plug-in had Automap focus. We had to remove this option in Automap 3.5 to allow us to add support for VST 3 and 64-bit plug-ins. The yellow spanner button is now used to dictate Automap focus which is why you lose focus when you click it. I have no idea why Side Kick 4 is working differently but it seems to be specific to that plug-in.


So, the issue is not that things worked differently in Live 8.1.3, but that worked differently in the previous version of Automap (3.4.1). If you would like a further demonstration of what I am stating, feel free to download 3.4.1, ensure the 'Use Automap UI' box is ticked in the plug-in manager, and you should see what I am referring to.

http://www.novationmusic.com/support/automap

The information from Novation does not check out.


Nocturn still not working in automap 3.4.1 and Live 8.2
Live and Nocturn are incompatible


@shaunsteffan any ideas whats going on dude?

.
.

[gennargiu]

http://beta.novationmusic.com/

new version beta 3.7 automap


hi

[RD444]

cheers but it doesn't say anything about fixes for this

I'm new to live, did Nocturn/Automap work correctly before?

it seems odd that automap is not recognised by live if you close the plugin with the button, but 'is' if you close the gui by changing tracks?

Is this a Live bug. I'm not sure i have contacted live about it.

[RD444]

same in automap 3.7b1

I think I'm just going to have accept that it does this

If i want to record automation while looking at the arrangement:

• Either move the plug to off the bottom of the screen
• or change to a blank track to close the plug with that setting enabled

A bit weird but a work a round

And i must take care because automap can adjust the plugin away from the value of the configure setting. I'm not 100% sure how this would impact things.

anyway. Any ideas or solutions welcome

its all getting a bit theretical

Cheers

[shaunsteffan]

Hey RD, ive had no luck getting automap to work in ableton, which is a joke!, Automap just doesnt work. i have tried everything. everyone is passing the blame around. Automap 3.4.1 worked in 8.1.3 perfectly but refuses to work in later versions of Ableton. Novation say they updated automap 3.5 to make it 64bit compatible. ..but still if that is the case why does 3.4.1 still not work in later versions of Ableton. When Ableton updated ableton a while back in the update log they mentioned something about fixing invalid midi cc messages, since they fixed the midi cc message automap went all weird ive have mentioned this to ableton but they refuse to acknowledge this ive had no reply . i'll try an find the link to the post if its not mentioned above.

[RD444]

Neil from novation got back to me after running some tests

here's what he found:

After looking into this further I have managed to get to the bottom of this issue.


Up until Automap 3.4.1, every Automap wrapped plug-in had an Automap UI (an extra border to the plug-in) which included a red 'A' that was used to dictate which plug-in had Automap focus. We had to remove this option in Automap 3.5 to allow us to add support for VST 3 and 64-bit plug-ins. The yellow spanner button is now used to dictate Automap focus which is why you lose focus when you click it. I have no idea why Side Kick 4 is working differently but it seems to be specific to that plug-in.


So, the issue is not that things worked differently in Live 8.1.3, but that worked differently in the previous version of Automap (3.4.1). If you would like a further demonstration of what I am stating, feel free to download 3.4.1, ensure the 'Use Automap UI' box is ticked in the plug-in manager, and you should see what I am referring to.

http://www.novationmusic.com/support/automap

Neil from Novations advice seems inaccurate, I spoke to him over the phone a few weeks back.

Ableton replied to me

as already stated by Novation in the thread: Ableton did not change anything in this regard since 8.1.3 but the Automap behavior has changed recently.
I suggest checking with Novation support if what you experience on your machine is intended by Novation and if not, to find out what might be the reason.
If there should be something wrong we have to change on our side, Novation can contact us directly, as we also work together on projects as the Launchpad, etc.

Best,
Dom Wilms
Ableton Technical Support

Ableton are disttributed by Focusrite/Novation


It seems odd that 2 companies directly linked don't acknowledge this odd behavior of the software.


I was looking into Novation keyboards, but this is making me feel a bit cautious when problems like this are happening.


Are you 100% that we have the same problem?

• That the automation and live settings are not altered if the plugin GUI is turned off.
• but does work if you turn the plugin off by changing tracks.
• Automap controls the plugin at all times
• but with the GUI of the plug 'closed', LIVE doesn't see its automation state

[shaunsteffan]

I'am using Ableton 8.1.3 with automap 3.5 installed using the nocturn controller, i am able to record automation with the GUI opened or closed, everything works perfectly in 8.1.3 with automap 3.4.1 + 3.5 . As soon as i upgrade to 8.1.4 i am unable to record automation in ableton using the nocturn,i have made no changes to my setup ..so it should work as it worked before in 8.1.3, u can hear the physical change in sound when turning the knobs on the nocturn ...but the automation lane in ableton stays flatlined when in record mode there is no change. this happens in ableton version 8.1.4 up to the current version. As soon as i load 8.1.3 everything is back to normal . Automap controls the plugins normally, it just that ableton is unable to record the midi cc messages.

[shaunsteffan]

Hello,

The current beta version of Live is 8.1.4b3. It is the first Release Candidate for Live 8.1.4

OS X: http://downloads.ableton.com/extra/5839 ... _814b3.dmg
Windows: http://downloads.ableton.com/extra/5839 ... _814b3.zip

Kind regards,
Amaury

--------------------

Bugfixes

- Fixed a rare crash that occurred when opening documents while the mouse moves in certain areas.

- Fixed a crash that occurred when dragging a Live set which contains a sample that has been shortened outside of Live to the Session view, while this sample is already in use in the Arrangement view.

- Fixed an issue where recording clips via the APC 40 wouldn't reflect the launching phase by blinking the button on the APC, nor select the corresponding slot when "Select on Launch" is ON. (viewtopic.php?f=25&t=133154&start=15)

- Fixed an issue that Configuring a 3rd party plugin, by clicking one of its parameters in the plugin GUI while Configure is ON, would not show the right value for the parameter in the Live GUI of the plugin.

- The APC 40 wouldn't always update its state properly when loading a new Live set.

- Live could hang when Undoing the deleting of a parameter mapping, in the Live GUI of a 3rd party plugin.

- Fixed a crash that occurred when firing a scene while moving a Group Track.

- We now ignore "non automatable" parameters for AU plugins, in terms of assigning them in the Live plugin GUI.

- Fixed a rare crash that could occur when loading a new song or quitting Live while the mouse hovered a Max for Live device.

Previous beta changelog can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142473

[shaunsteffan]

The current beta version of Live is 8.1.4b2

OS X: http://downloads.ableton.com/extra/5839 ... _814b2.dmg
Windows: http://downloads.ableton.com/extra/5839 ... _814b2.zip

Best,

Dennis DeSantis
dennis.desantis@ableton.com

---------------------

Improvements and feature changes


- Beta versions are now optimized so that performance should be the same as release versions.

- Beta versions no longer expire.

- Combination Mode is now active when multiple Akai APC40/20s are in use. This means that the topmost controller selected in your preferences will control tracks 1-8, the second controller selected will control tracks 9-16, and so on. When an APC40 and an APC20 are connected at the same time, the APC20's buttons will default to Track Selection, and its faders will default to volume.


Bugfixes


- Fixed a rare crash that could occur when deleting a Drum Rack pad.

- Fixed a crash that could occur when moving a track with an automated parameter that is also MIDI mapped.

- In very rare cases, Live would crash when running extremely loud signals through Overdrive.

- Custom Min/Max values for MIDI- or key-mapped parameters on VST plug-ins would be lost after saving and reloading the Set.

- When using clip envelopes to modulate the parameters of third-party plug-ins, the modulation range would be broken after saving and reloading the Set. (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=141378&start=0)

- Some Sets which were saved in earlier versions of Live could not be opened in recent versions.

- In certain cases, launching a warped audio clip would play the unwarped version simultaneously.

- In certain cases, clips would not blink properly when using Follow Actions with launch quantization set to None. (viewtopic.php?f=25&t=140427)

- Dragging a sample onto the waveform of an existing clip in Session view would reset the Launch settings of the clip.

- In some cases, Gate launch mode for Session view clips would not behave correctly.

- In certain cases, conflicting fade and volume envelopes would inadvertently mute audio clips in the Arrangement.

- In certain cases, loud clicks could occur when using crossfades in the Arrangement.

- When recording into the Arrangement, clicks could occur when "Create Fades on Clip Edges" was enabled.

- In certain cases, clicks could occur when turning on the filter in Sampler/Simpler while holding a note.

- The faders on the Mackie Control would not behave correctly when volume is automated in Live.

- In certain cases, when recording a clip in Session View, the APC40 would not flash red to reflect the state of the clip. (viewtopic.php?f=25&t=133154)

- Fixed a bug that would cause automation to always be overridden when using Ultra Analog. This would result in the Back to Arrangement button becoming active.

- In some cases, the dialog box that should show trial options when starting Live without an authorization would be empty instead.

- In certain cases, a dialog about temporary files would be shown even though there were no temporary files.

- On OS X, missing media files without a file extension could not be replaced.

- Live now ignores invalid MIDI data (for example, MIDI CC values that don't exist.)

- Various other stability improvements

[shaunsteffan]

- Live now ignores invalid MIDI data (for example, MIDI CC values that don't exist.)

[RD444]

cheers shaunsteffan

Do you think its a Live problem or a Automap problem?

I tried Automap 3.4.1 (the version Novation said worked) and it had the same problems. I'm new to Live I've only had it a few weeks. So I have nothing to compare it to?

[shaunsteffan]

To be honest, i think it is a Live problem. the problems with automap started as soon as Ableton updated Live from 8.1.3 to 8.1.4 .i have tried all the updates in between 8.1.4 and 8.2 an they all fail to work. i dont understand how it could work perfectly in 8.1.3 an fail to work in the following updates. i am using 8.1.3 at the moment ..but would like to update to the latest version to address all the bugs that have been fixed.

[RD444]

I have replied to Ableton support letting them know this is a Live issue