Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

[Machinesworking]

The thing is, when you do it in another program like Logic and it works exactly as you'd expect, it's hard to accept that Live just doesn't.

Is this not a problem with any plug-in that has an internal recordable sequencer? It's not a Maschine specific thing I don't think.

It is a bit of a problem with any internal recordable sequencer, but again, that's not how Live was written to work. Logic has been around twice as long, DP almost three times as long.
Neither of those programs are made to delete and add instruments on the fly and neither I'm willing to bet have the sort of crazy dynamic buffer/latency code that Live does.
And again the problem is almost certainly that Live sees Maschine as a regular instrument, so it compensates for the latency in the way it would with an internal instrument recording into it's own sequencer. That's another possible work around to record the pads into Live from the pads on Maschine and export the midi back into Maschine.
The main suggestion I gave that might work is the external instrument one. Live supposedly doesn't compensate for latency on tracks with that plug, though it's possible that because Maschine itself is a plug in on that track that Live compensates, and we're back to Jack/Soundflower and timothyallan has already stated that that's too much work for the likes of himself.

In the end of the day, dude has Logic, it works for him there, dude doesn't want to do any workaround that's too much work, he should work in Logic. Calling or writing tech support would be good too, get an official reply statement etc.

[leedsquietman]

I try to never add plugins while arranging a track / tracking audio or MIDI until I'm certain I'm done. Occasionally this is a bit impractical as you might want to make the odd change later or add something. But it helps to keep down latency issues as more plugins than you would imagine do add latency and when several do this, it can be confusing for the PDC.

The other thing you can do is freeze/flatten but of course, if you flatten then you've committed yourself to that sound as it releases virtual instruments or FX and renders an audio track.

[Phelios]

That really sucks! I tried the same combination and reproduced your error exactly.

What makes it even worse it the Virus TI. Syncing Ableton, Maschine and the TI is impossible.

[jbone1313]

I had all sorts of troubles trying to get Maschine to work right with Live--mostly MIDI issues. I eventually felt like a tool, because everything I wanted from Maschine was already in Live. So, I sold Maschine.

[timothyallan]

That really sucks! I tried the same combination and reproduced your error exactly.

What makes it even worse it the Virus TI. Syncing Ableton, Maschine and the TI is impossible.

^^ Exactly, it totally ruins the whole experience of Maschine.

MW - I appreciate the help you gave, don't take it personally if the change to workflow is too much of a pita for me.

Glitchrock - This is my main gripe, it 'works' in every other DAW. In fact, I read something ages ago on the NI forums where a dev said they were in talks with Apple dev's to sort out a latency issue in Logic and it would be included in the next Logic update… voila, no latency issues at all now.

Also, the plugins I use are not esoteric 'mastering' plugins, they're things like The Glue, PSP Vintage Warmer, Sonnox Dynamics and Limiter… regular mix tools. They ALL impart latency in everyones project…The Glue doesn't unless you have it in oversampling mode to be precise.

I mix as I go along, like a lot of EDM artists. I also don't want to have to drop a compressor on a drum track, then go to a delay latency track, adjust a slider until I don't hear phasing sounds anymore, then continue to use my compressor hoping that I have the amount of delay correct. It ruins the flow, which ironically is what NI pushes for Maschine.

I don't use Logic, I have it, but would rather use Live. I was hoping it would be a simple answer, but it's not so I'll work something out. No big deal… sort of.

[Machinesworking]

Also, the plugins I use are not esoteric 'mastering' plugins, they're things like The Glue, PSP Vintage Warmer, Sonnox Dynamics and Limiter… regular mix tools. They ALL impart latency in everyones project…The Glue doesn't unless you have it in oversampling mode to be precise.

Don't have the others, but Vintage Warmer is a well known latency inducing pig.
Another quick question, when you're recording in Maschine are you sending MIDI notes to Live? and can you? I'm thinking if Live 'thinks' you're recording notes, then it might just compensate for the delay correctly. You would have to disable the notes afterwards but..
Also, did you even bother trying the external instrument/fx idea? Concept here is that Live won't compensate for latency on that track thinking correctly that the source of timing for that track is coming outside Live. May need to use a Rack in order to get Maschine and the external instrument plug in on the same track....

[[nis]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTA8_kFcU24

Here is a video I just did explaining the latency issues I encounter in Live 8 with Maschine when I have latency inducing plugins in my project. In order to record with no latency in Live, you have to record enable the track. Live doesn't compensate properly for the delay and when you take off record, all your timing is off.

Logic doesn't have this issue!

Am I missing something?

Hi Timmothy, this is caused by Live's so called "playthrough optimization" which is kicking in as soon as the track is record-enabled. It basically allows you to play a softsynth at the lowest possible latency even though the rest of your set has a huge latency.

Unfortunately it is not very helpful in this particular case. That's because Maschine runs an own internal sequencer, which would be shifted ahead of time as long as the track is record-armed. The only solution is to turn playthrough optimization off. This can only be done with the Options.txt file. You need to add the option

-StrictDelayCompensation

... to the txt file. The downside is that you'll experience the overall latency of the entire Live set when playing Maschine.

Here's a link which explains the use of the Options.txt file:
http://www.ableton.com/de/pages/faq/options_text

Hope this helps.

Best,
Nico

[timothyallan]

Well there you have it. Thanks Nico

[nylarch]

Wondering if this might work - and I don't have Maschine - but set up another midi track to receive midi from the Maschine track and record enable that one. So the actual track with Maschine on it isn't record enabled....might not make the compensation then....

[ayanami]

nm found it in another thread.