Apple buys Ableton!!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
UncleAge
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by UncleAge » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:34 am

Tone Deft wrote:Image

quit it.
Next time try something stronger.

Tone Deft
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:44 am

UncleAge wrote:Next time try something stronger.
I dunno, a few out there replies but damnit you guys for the most part have been downright civil and constructive. what the hell?
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

Earwax69
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by Earwax69 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:50 am

Yeah, maya have the big part of cg market but Softimage is quite popular in Canada and 3ds is all over japan. Also most smoke effects in recent movies are made with krakatoa for 3ds max. Also Maya is loosing a lot of market now to XSI and 3ds because of the old architecture of the soft. Maya need a major update.

As for colors, in tv its exactly the opposite... Mac colors are too bright. As for print, a calibrated IPS screen is what you need.

fx23
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by fx23 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:45 am

oh yeah, so that's a bit different in canada then. xsi looks cool. as for krakatoa smokes that's a part of my often jobs with fumeFx,
that's quite fast to setup, and also to render. max in fact relies a lot on such 3rdparty tools to make thingz it makes very
bad natively ;) but ive always been impressed with Maya display and polygons handling Vs Max, it can deal with much higher nb of datas, but yeah maybe seem old heavy and would need some refresh.

hacktheplanet
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by hacktheplanet » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:05 am

That was a very funny joke. :)
Image

Earwax69
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by Earwax69 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:11 am

@fx23; your in the CG busisness? I started as a flame-inferno artist long time ago and now Im freelancer, doing mainly motion design and show openings... I still use my old Lightwave package for general 3d stuff but as it lack a lot of features I had to use other softs as well. Maya for fluids, 3ds max for the cool modifiers and XSI for character animation. Depend of were I work of course and what packages is available there.

Still After Effects is the main horse to polish all this!

I've just build myself few Phenom x6 render nodes, 6-cores overclocked to 3.8ghz. 500$ per box, real good deal and it saved my butt in the last few project I did. I prefer i7 for my main station but for pure raytracing, the phenom are 20% faster.

blablablabla...

davepermen
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by davepermen » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:49 am

dave999z wrote:
agent314 wrote:I like Apple and think they put out a great product, but I cannot wait until people start writing viruses for Macs and all the fanboys who love to brag about how they don't need to worry about viruses or malware end up eating large amounts of tasty, tasty crow.
And, when exactly is this going to happen? It must be true that people have tried writing viruses for macs. It just must not be that easy. OSX has been out for like 10 years. Not one virus? You may be waiting a long time. And why you're excitedly waiting for that is beyond me. Because if/when that happens it'll prove that Mac users who have been virus free for all these years were just flat out wrong? It doesn't work that way. We're right because, right now, we're virus free and happy about it. If a virus appears in a few years, it won't make me wish I had used a PC (with KNOWN viruses) all these years. Strange logic.
actually, it's easy. but the days of viruses that kill systems or annoy the users are long time over. nowadays, it's mostly about silent stealth virues that collect data. you wouldn't notice having one of those. the reason why mac doesn't get attacked is because it's no target platform. having 5% of the market is not interesting.

but macs get always hacked the first in about any hacker contest.

+ (and this is the biggest one)

nowadays most attacks are social attacks, means attacks relying on people being stupid. the only big virus that was on windows last year was one, where people started an executable that was on a stick, and it was called "Open in Explorer.exe" and had a folder-image as icon. people that don't read clicked on it and so the virus spread. he never gained admin rights or anything useful. but he would have been powerful enough to grab your mail info, your music, your facebook account or what ever, and send it out of your system.

these kind of attacks will always work, as people will always be stupid. (last attack i saw was over facebook.. "hey, saw some pics from you: http://someserver/myusername/Photos.exe". yeah. i had to download, accept, allow and run the exe for it to be able to then steal my account. but PEOPLE DO.


btw, the usb-stick virus looked like this:
Image
Notice the big "Install or Run Program" title and the "Publisher not specified"? Hint: Most people don't.


Bottom line: 1) Viruses that harm your system are not a main goal anymore. 2) System attacks are less interesting than social attacks nowadays 3) apple is far away from being an interesting target, they have to grow 10fold to start being interesting.

and btw, the next attacks will most likely happen on the mobile platform. as, so far, every phone is rootable, and very often without user intervention really, this means they are attackable, too.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

Machinesworking
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:48 am

@davepermen
All of your arguments have been given for the last ten years I've been on the internet.
Yes, it's true that it's stupid to think it won't eventually happen, but just look at this thread?
There are people talking about switching DAWs for the OS, because they don't like Apple that much.
Any forum anywhere has dozens of PC users who will argue for days on end Ad nauseum about how awful Apple is and how there's always a better PC alternative, people like you are in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Logically some of you might actually be coders, and I dunno? hack an apple computer at a trade conference for security? :lol: Fact is though, with all that tempered bellow and above the surface hate at Apple, you still refuse to admit that it's not just because of market share that viruses aren't affecting Mac users, and try to downplay that there has never been in the 25+ years Apple has been around any major virus for macs that was even half as bad as the top 20 PC viruses.
Even though there has to be some coder out there that hates Apple, and would love to take Jobs down a notch, this still hasn't happened, yet it's of course no credit to the OS for you PC pundit types. Shit? even that window you showed is such an obvious example of why PCs are easier to hack? It's not half as clear that the folder is mislabeled as it is when a trojan is attempting to instal on Macs. Just badly laid out in every respect. On OSX if that showed up a dialog box would ask you if you wanted to run the application? and it would be obvious right away that the folder was mislabeled etc.


Personally if Live or Digital Performer announced tomorrow that Cakewalk or Microsoft had bought them. I wouldn't be surprised or upset, it would be more like meh? Hey Dave? What kind of PC laptop is your favorite and why? I like OSX, but I'm not married to it. :P

davepermen
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by davepermen » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:05 am

while it's true that it's impressive no one actually hacked apple, that doesn't mean they're secure. it does mean, though, that users who bought into the security luckily so far stayed save.

so it's sort of a self-fullfilling prophecy.

back before intel, macs where not target because you actually had to have mac hardware to test it on, so it was much more actual work to invest just to get to testings. and during the days switching to intel, interestingly there wheren't much viruses anywhere anymore.

singular hacks sure exist. but they are MUCH easier to do in a social hacking way. attacking macs all over is not profitable due to the market share.

but it's interesting to see no one hated them enough to just attack them for pure hate(or, the less evil way: to prove a point). still, osx security holes get shown up from time to time. each and everyone could lead to a virus. and while getting root access is nice, it's not needed for most forms of virii. what does it help that the system doesn't get attacked when the virus "just" deletes all mp3 and m4a from your disk? and that is doable rather easily on any platform.

ANOTHER reason why apple didn't got attacked, related to the marked share: not that much dump users. with that, i mean the typical teenager girl clicking and starting everythign they get over facebook, msn, skype, kino.to, etc.


apple will most likely have the luck to never grow big enough while pc's are still an interesting platform. mobiles will be much more interesting, and thus pc's less attacked, too (ran vista for 2 years without installing anti virus software. just some random scans, never got anything). at this point, apple might stand there and said "see, we never got attacked", and they will be right.


my point is, it has less to do with the build quality of the os than with the environment, customer base, chance of making money with it, etc..
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

Machinesworking
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:47 am

davepermen wrote: apple will most likely have the luck to never grow big enough while pc's are still an interesting platform. mobiles will be much more interesting, and thus pc's less attacked, too (ran vista for 2 years without installing anti virus software. just some random scans, never got anything). at this point, apple might stand there and said "see, we never got attacked", and they will be right.
I think the reality distortion field has found a new home here. Apple are doing very very very well, and no, it's not just in ihardware, their laptops are selling like hotcakes, their quarterly earnings are always showing a solid profit, even when Microsoft and Dell are not. Maybe in your country Macs are rare, but I live 25 miles from Redmond, and they're literally 50% of the laptop market if any random coffee shop is any indication. Apple are consistently undervalued stock wise because the business world thinks in black and white terms, and Microsoft "won" years ago.... This does nothing to devalue the amount of money and new users of OSX Apple can report every year.

Also, as if Mac users don't have teenage kids? Really? That's just bad logic my friend. You're still relying on a numbers game, but truth is OSX has been on Intel machines for years and years now, so where's our virus? Face it, it's not just about sales. :)

Windows pundits, always willing to blissfully ignore anything decent about Macs, gotta love you guys. :P

davepermen
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by davepermen » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:25 am

they're still at 5% market share. you life in an apple-centric bubble, there (and america is off anyways with >10% right now?). that still means with the same attack, you can get 10x the people falling for it, with the same effort.

since apple moved to intel, there where NOT MUCH VIRUSES ON WINDOWS, too.

besides social viruses, means stuff stupid users should not do.

last real attacking virus was nimda, and that was around .. 2001? there was another one around 2004 that attacked systems on it's own. other than that, the virus laden windows wasn't much virus laden anymore (stuff that users install on their own is not what i call a virus).

i don't ignore the decent parts about macs. but security is not one. never was (and never was a goal of them. else they would not use security trough obscurity (meaning 'we're different, so nobody attacks us'). this works so far so well, but would fall flat once there would be a financial interest of hurting them. there isn't, as there isn't on windows systems anymore.

a good virus (just like in biology) is not a virus that kills it's host, but lets it coexist as if nothing happens.

most of the industry except for virus protection product selling companies declare the age of virus attacks dead anyways. which is why you don't see anything major happening on about any system.

but each system is hackable, and so each would be infectable. even linux systems get infected tons of times (web servers mainly). much more profitable right now.

and while talking about that, i'm watching a dos-attack against one of our online payment systems in switzerland. thanks, wikileaks fanatics, i'd like to pay my audio 8 dj sound card now. (postfinance.ch if you ask).


it's not about distortion fields, it's about common sense (and knowing computer technology in and out, of course). no system is save. so the reasons why some get targeted, others don't is completely independent of the system. actually, if macs would be so save, there would be a big honor in being the guy who hacks it => it would get attacked even more.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

hoffman2k
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by hoffman2k » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:44 am

If another mac Trojan or virus pops up, mac users are more likely to run into a mac vs pc thread about the virus than the actual virus itself. It even makes local and international news.

@MW

They stay "informed" so we don't have to :)

neal909
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by neal909 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:16 am

these virus have nothing to do with macs or PC, its about fucking things up for the people using them. and for the odd person using an Atari st i suppose they don't need to worry about a virus either. one thing though, why cant mac users be happy and just get on with it, maybe macs are better at a lot of things but the average PC user is just not interested.
i would hate to see apple buy Ableton. i am on live 6.0.11 at the moment and will be until the day i die if they do.

fx23
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by fx23 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:43 am

Earwax69 wrote:@fx23; your in the CG busisness? I started as a flame-inferno artist long time ago and now Im freelancer, doing mainly motion design and show openings... I still use my old Lightwave package for general 3d stuff but as it lack a lot of features I had to use other softs as well. Maya for fluids, 3ds max for the cool modifiers and XSI for character animation. Depend of were I work of course and what packages is available there.

Still After Effects is the main horse to polish all this!

I've just build myself few Phenom x6 render nodes, 6-cores overclocked to 3.8ghz. 500$ per box, real good deal and it saved my butt in the last few project I did. I prefer i7 for my main station but for pure raytracing, the phenom are 20% faster.

blablablabla...
oh cool! I wished i was a flame artist, but i work more in 3D (only from 5 years). im also 2D/3D CG artist feelance on 3dsVray and AfterFx for 2d/comp, i like using the booth with links such as RPF or scripts do get the 3D in AFX, wich is my main horse to clean or mess the 3D too :) cool for the phenom info, i am about to rebuild myself a station.

I often work with a director named Edouard Salier
here some recent (low budget) stuff we made using Max and afx using those links:
a clip for massive Attack.
http://vimeo.com/15961376
and some strange short:
http://vimeo.com/9824456

if interested, can find few more links with commercialz and shorts ive made here:
http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki/doku.php?id=users:23fx23
let me know if got links or showreel, im interested.
cheers

Machinesworking
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Re: Apple buys Ableton!!!

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:07 pm

davepermen wrote:they're still at 5% market share. you life in an apple-centric bubble, there (and america is off anyways with >10% right now?). that still means with the same attack, you can get 10x the people falling for it, with the same effort.

since apple moved to intel, there where NOT MUCH VIRUSES ON WINDOWS, too.

besides social viruses, means stuff stupid users should not do.

last real attacking virus was nimda, and that was around .. 2001? there was another one around 2004 that attacked systems on it's own. other than that, the virus laden windows wasn't much virus laden anymore (stuff that users install on their own is not what i call a virus).

i don't ignore the decent parts about macs. but security is not one. never was (and never was a goal of them. else they would not use security trough obscurity (meaning 'we're different, so nobody attacks us'). this works so far so well, but would fall flat once there would be a financial interest of hurting them. there isn't, as there isn't on windows systems anymore.

a good virus (just like in biology) is not a virus that kills it's host, but lets it coexist as if nothing happens.

most of the industry except for virus protection product selling companies declare the age of virus attacks dead anyways. which is why you don't see anything major happening on about any system.

but each system is hackable, and so each would be infectable. even linux systems get infected tons of times (web servers mainly). much more profitable right now.

and while talking about that, i'm watching a dos-attack against one of our online payment systems in switzerland. thanks, wikileaks fanatics, i'd like to pay my audio 8 dj sound card now. (postfinance.ch if you ask).


it's not about distortion fields, it's about common sense (and knowing computer technology in and out, of course). no system is save. so the reasons why some get targeted, others don't is completely independent of the system. actually, if macs would be so save, there would be a big honor in being the guy who hacks it => it would get attacked even more.
Seriously, just a huge amount of ridiculous excuses. Best is the last one, saying that because macs are so vulnerable there is no honor in attacking them, really? You stand by that?

Look, I'm as annoyed at the Apple fanboys posting about how wonderful that company as the average PC or Mac user is I suppose? The thing you can't seem to grasp is the simply unarguable FACT that you my friend are the PC using equivalent. You pop up in any Apple thread to try to discredit anything, literally anything that Apple has ever done, and I do mean ever. It's a sad state of affairs when people using a product from a company like Microsoft that was very rightfully sued by the US government for being a monopoly, ( You can thank Bush for dropping that case ), are online constantly try to paint the only competition to them as being evil, bad, greedy, etc. Frankly with how slow and entrenched Microsoft is you should be freaking happy that Apple exists. Without the slight teensy amount of competition, they wouldn't have any GUI, (Xerox were not doing anything with the GUI, it's Apple that actually used the idea, and hired a good portion of the developers), and very arguably wouldn't have the sort of interface ideas you see in 7. Though I think Apple should publicly apologize for the whole "bubble" GUI thing, which Microsoft slavishly adopted. :evil:

Point is, it's living in a bubble to think either company is pure, or that either is that much better. I'm lavishly waiting for your bubble response. :P

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