Ableton.Suite.v8.2.1.MAC.OSX.INTEL.ISO-ArCADE

[macmurphy]

I want a new car. Now who can borrow me a crowbar and the, "how to circumvent the theft protection" tutorial! The later should be in PDF format so I can bring my iPad.

hold on tight to that iPad, Furland. i want one of them

[The Carpet Cleaner]

If you feel like using cracked versions, then do it we're not your parents, but don't come here to tell us, that's simply retarded.

[hoffman2k]

The quarterly "Gimme shit for free... or else...." thread.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150178

Why bother to act like this hasn't been played out before?

Dear Nis (Ableton Headquarter)

Thanks you for the response. I am sorry that i can't write that i am happy with the policy of Ableton. But i will try to explain here what i mean.

When i pay for something then i really do think it should work. Ableton have been charging me for "Buggy" updates since i started to use live. I do understand that sometimes something can go wrong, but not everytime? and not over 6 years. Why does the registred users have to pay for your companys bad intern policy? I really don't get it. Why are you charging money for an update that are more than just buggy? Why does the users have to pay for an update, and then have to beta test it for your company when they actually did pay for a working update? I don't wanna pay for version 9 and then have to wait until you guys sort all the bugs out, this should be done before you charge money for it i think. Heres a little example, i am also a registred Reason user since version 1 and i have never posted one post on their forums because it just works, and i do pay any update without complaining because i get stabillity and a really good product, so that's fair. If Ableton had the same policy i would never write posts like this one. And yes i really think that its time for Ableton to give something usefull back to the people who have been living with all thoose issues, and endless beta testings for years, they did buy a product which actually has a good concept but it seems that 3rd party features and other issues are more important than me and other users who thinks and feels like me. Why not give the the longtime users who have been dealing with all thoose issues over years, a free plugin for example as a little "thank you" present for Ableton's bad policy over the years? I would think that's fair to the users who have been supporting Ableton so long, and yes the AMP is surely a step in the right direction, but i don't need the AMP, so for me it would be much more interresting to get the choice too choose one of the existing plugins avaiable, like Sampler, Collision or Operator, that would be really nice move. Ableton should find a way how something like this could be done in a fair way, so that nobody feels their left out.

Kind Regards

Thanks for the elaborate response. As far as stability is concerned, we have made mistakes in the past which clearly led to an unstable product. The amount of complaints in this forum are a clear evidence for this and it is also obvious that some of our customers have lost their faith in the product. However, I think it was certainly not our intention (or "policy" as you call it) to annoy our customers with unstable software or let them be the beta testing guinea pigs. The Live 8 release has gone wrong in many regards, but I think we have learned our lesson and not only spent almost a year to work on these issues (which is quite a financial challenge for such a relatively small company), but also spent a lot of time and energy restructuring the whole workflow in our company, ensuring better inter-team communication and more efficient development and testing. All these efforts will hopefully lead to a more stable Live 8 and avoid similar problems with future versions. We're not done with this whole process yet. There's still a lot to do.

That having said, we will not be able to solve all issues. A bug-free software is an illusion. Especially new releases have bugs. We can try to get it as stable as possible, but it will never be bug free. You mentioned Reason. Reason is indeed an extremely well programmed piece of software. That's desirable for any software company (hats off to the Propellerheads!), but to be fair, Reason is not as complex as Live is and it is not entirely bug-free either. If you had used a particular function which always crashes in Reason, then you surely wouldn't be so happy with it now. Or if your computer doesn't play so well with Reason. Or if Reason would support VSTs and one of your beloved plugin always makes Reason crash. These things happen.

Anyway, we're not talking about Reason, we're talking about the oh-so-buggy Live 8 and you are asking for some compensation for all the trouble you've been through. I think this is a legitimate question, BUT I also think you should be playing fair when demanding such things, so my question is: what trouble have you personally been through that makes you deserve a free instrument? In our email archive I can see that you once had a Rewire crash problem when opening Reason sets. Searching the support forum returns an old rant about Live 5.0.2 not being able to render your sets, but apart from that I can't find any reports about serious issues from you. I'm asking because I want to understand topics like this better, just out of personal interest. Have you really been through such hard times with Live, having bought an almost unusable piece of software, and if so, why haven't you contacted us directly? I'm sure our customer care people would have sorted you out with a refund or at least provided some compensation for all your trouble.

Best,
Nico

Dear Nis

Thanks for the reply, it was almost impossible for me to fall to sleep last night because i was thinking a lot about your posts. As you wrote Ableton is a relatively small company and it is a financial challenge for Ableton to get everything to work, i do understand that. And i know that you are working hard to fix the problems and that's really good. BUT i would like to point out a couple of things that i think could help your company and the users in the future. I started to use version 1 of live as a demo, because i liked the concept, but at that time Live 1 missed a lot of features so i did wait until the programm was getting more stable and had more features that i need for my work in the studio and on stage. When i did buy my license back in 2004 there was only one version of Live which i actually did find really good. I did expect that Live would be a full working DAW with all the tools included in the future, but it did not? Ableton did start to release different version of the program, like Live Light, Live, and Live Suite. For me it's hard to understand why a relatively small company like Ableton started to do that? For me it don't make sence to release different versions of Live, except for the demo version which is a good idea. If you ask me Ableton should only release one version of Live, with all tools and synths included, that way Ableton could save money and ressources, and all users would be treated the same way. At the moment i become the feeling that you are treating the users in different ways which isnt a fair policy. You releases the AMP yesterday as a free plugin, but it isn't free for all? We have to pay 99$ for it, which i feel is wrong. And again the people with Live Suite gets the plugin for free? It seems like that Ableton is forcing people to buy the Live Suite, before they have all the needed tools you would normally find in a lot of DAWs nowaday's. For me that's not so easy to understand.

PS: Non of the users are charging Ableton for all the support, beta testing and new ideas over the years, we all do it for free, because we do love Live and the idea of Ableton.

Kind Regards

[Piplodocus]

WTF is all this "you should pay for it if you make money out of the software" BS?

Music's cost me FAR more over the years than I ever made out of it! Does that mean I should have stolen my 5 grand guitar rig? My MacBook? Never made sod all out of them.

If everyone who used ableton any reasonable amount had paid for it we'd probably be on a bug free Live 12 by now, which would be so advanced it would even wash your socks!

Anyway, I'm off to mug an old lady. Don't worry, I'll tell her she's old so doesn't need the long term financial stability I do whilst I knock her to the floor.

[just_in]

I think buying or not buying Live comes down to: do you want to support Ableton or not?
If yes, you buy it. If not, you don't. Simple as that.
(Buying is obviously no longer the only means of acquiring the product, since even 43 year old people like the OP seem to be able to do this without paying. )

If you're not buying, then whether you use pirated versions, other software, play with your cat or you go for a walk in the park is really irrelevant here, for Ableton. I thought we were past making stupid comparisons with theft of physical objects. Looks like we aren't.
Yes, piracy is wrong, but it can just as well be a victimless crime, so no, stealing a car is not a good analogy. Try something else or, better yet, don't make analogies.

[xzusa8ky]

@hoffmann2k


....Still playing the Board Sheriff?...............

[xzusa8ky]

I think buying or not buying Live comes down to: do you want to support Ableton or not?
If yes, you buy it. If not, you don't. Simple as that.
(Buying is obviously no longer the only means of acquiring the product, since even 43 year old people like the OP seem to be able to do this without paying. )

If you're not buying, then whether you use pirated versions, other software, play with your cat or you go for a walk in the park is really irrelevant here, for Ableton. I thought we were past making stupid comparisons with theft of physical objects. Looks like we aren't.
Yes, piracy is wrong, but it can just as well be a victimless crime, so no, stealing a car is not a good analogy. Try something else or, better yet, don't make analogies.

Read the post before you write nonsens.........

[xzusa8ky]

WTF is all this "you should pay for it if you make money out of the software" BS?

Music's cost me FAR more over the years than I ever made out of it! Does that mean I should have stolen my 5 grand guitar rig? My MacBook? Never made sod all out of them.

If everyone who used ableton any reasonable amount had paid for it we'd probably be on a bug free Live 12 by now, which would be so advanced it would even wash your socks!

Anyway, I'm off to mug an old lady. Don't worry, I'll tell her she's old so doesn't need the long term financial stability I do whilst I knock her to the floor.

Nice point of view.......

[xzusa8ky]

If you feel like using cracked versions, then do it we're not your parents, but don't come here to tell us, that's simply retarded.

Read the post before accusing me being a Pirate!

[hoffman2k]

@hoffmann2k


....Still playing the Board Sheriff?...............

Thats Detective Hoffman2k to you

[macmurphy]

can no one read? the op doesn't use cracks.

[swishniak]

WTF is all this "you should pay for it if you make money out of the software" BS?

Music's cost me FAR more over the years than I ever made out of it! Does that mean I should have stolen my 5 grand guitar rig? My MacBook? Never made sod all out of them.

If everyone who used ableton any reasonable amount had paid for it we'd probably be on a bug free Live 12 by now, which would be so advanced it would even wash your socks!

Anyway, I'm off to mug an old lady. Don't worry, I'll tell her she's old so doesn't need the long term financial stability I do whilst I knock her to the floor.

i think we can all agree that live is an amazingly inexpensive tool for what it does.

my first project where i used ableton paid for my license. since then ive used it everyday for the past 6 years and i earn all my money through projects where i use it to some extent. so i have no problem throwing them a couple hundred bucks every now and then.

im not saying its the only reason WHY you should pay for your software. but it makes sense to me.. (and you seem to think so too: "If everyone who used ableton any reasonable amount had paid for it we'd probably be on a bug free Live 12 by now," ?)

[cabletone]

Doesn't matter if OP doesnt use cracks; even TALKING about k's should be not permitted and this thread should be deleted. It does not do any good for ableton and the paying userbase. This is common sense.

[Dragonbreath]

Cracked software and pirated music is one big can of worms...

There is a significant difference between physical theft and virtual piracy.

The music industry is claiming billions of lost in revenue by counting how many copies of mp3 were downloaded...
The problem is people download them because its available, they wouldn't have all that stuff if they had to pay for it because they simply couldn't afford it.
Is it hurting there revenue... yes of course... but the amplitude of it is greatly exaggerated.

Most of us have done virtual piracy... saying otherwise would be lying to ourselfs

Personally if it were not for pirated software, I would of probably never would of heard of Ableton.
I am now a proud owner of version 8 and will probably eventually upgrade to suite. I even converted a friend who also bought ableton 8.
I dont make money from live yet but I love the product and the concept and I want to see it grow even more, so I bought it.

I dont feel bad about having pirated music, movies or software, because If hadnt pirated them I would of never had any contact with them in the first place.

Try it, if you use it buy it. That simple!

The people who crack software are just putting there skills up to the test. Just to see if they can do it. Forces companies to find better to protect there software and hence makes better software. Most cracked copies of software encourage you to buy the software if you use it. And I think most people do... and people who dont arnt serious about what there doing anyways... they just hoard software but dont do anything with it.

just my 2 cents

[The Carpet Cleaner]

If you feel like using cracked versions, then do it we're not your parents, but don't come here to tell us, that's simply retarded.

Read the post before accusing me being a Pirate!

I didn't say you're a pirate. Just that if you're so poor that you can't afford to buy your DAW, then sell it back and crack it and do your life. What do you want from us, to tell you if it's good or bad? the answer is 'it's bad', and you're a bad boy