iPad

[glitchrock-buddha]

So you're saying that the iMS-20 can receive midi clock from live?

The iMS-20 will only receive MIDI notes/CCs. It won't accept clock at all.

How would you do that? How to get midi from the computer to something that only accepts usb? Or can the camera connection kit accept midi via some other midi peripheral?

thanks

There's two ways to go with MIDI.

1. wifi using OSC/OSCulator or the OSX MIDI Network protocol or a custom OSC script like touchAble uses or...etc.

2. Then you've got the USB option via the Camera Connection Kit or the LIne6 MIDI Mobilizer. The Line thing is fading fast, though. I'd avoid it. The CCK will work with a USB peripheral like the Akai LPK25 keyboard, or it can work with a USB-to-MIDI cable like the M-Audio UNO that I use (standard MIDI jacks at one end, USB on the other baby!).

Hope that's what you were after.

Yeah I Yeah I did know that the iMS-20 accepted midi notes and cc (I've actually got the iMS-20 controller which can fully control the iMS-20), but I was hoping there was a way to sync to an actual song from a DAW like Live. But I guess not. Too bad. Because as fun as it is, it's not really easy to take something you've done on it and use it in a song. It would be nice if they would upgrade the MS-20 plug-in to be similar and accept patches and sequences you've exported from the iMS-20, like how idrum can do it.

[LoopStationZebra]

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with Korg at this point. The iElectribe has NO MIDI functionality at all. Crazy.

You've got that iMS-20 controller? With the wood body???

[delicioso]

Back to MIDI sync, as you might have gathered only 2 apps offer it, but devs keep promising the feature. And promising. And promising.

The iMS-20 is the biggest crime, though. A truly incredible app hampered by SHIT MIDI implementation. Only MIDI receive; with no change in sight for send or clock. The good news is that at least most now offer send and receive.

LSZ, props for your constant pushing for full MIDI on iOS apps. It's CRAZY that it seems like most devs haven't thought about things like MIDI Sync for their apps until now. Yet there are devs who are now making both iOS and VST/AU plugin versions of the same software that can go back and forth across multiple platforms. It's almost as if they want iOS apps to stay crippled so as to not infringe upon the sales of higher priced desktop apps or something. Or they couldn't possibly believe that some people might want to use these devices with their regular computer setup at the same time, like you would with hardware synths? Maybe people are just lazy and everyone just waits until someone codes an example they can grab? At least it's finally starting to happen.

Simultaneous recording multiple audio tracks... Is there an iPad app that can do that yet since you can already use any class-compliant USB multichannel audio interface with an iPad? Garageband?

[8O]

Back to MIDI sync, as you might have gathered only 2 apps offer it, but devs keep promising the feature. And promising. And promising.

The iMS-20 is the biggest crime, though. A truly incredible app hampered by SHIT MIDI implementation. Only MIDI receive; with no change in sight for send or clock. The good news is that at least most now offer send and receive.

LSZ, props for your constant pushing for full MIDI on iOS apps. It's CRAZY that it seems like most devs haven't thought about things like MIDI Sync for their apps until now. Yet there are devs who are now making both iOS and VST/AU plugin versions of the same software that can go back and forth across multiple platforms. It's almost as if they want iOS apps to stay crippled so as to not infringe upon the sales of higher priced desktop apps or something. Or they couldn't possibly believe that some people might want to use these devices with their regular computer setup at the same time, like you would with hardware synths? Maybe people are just lazy and everyone just waits until someone codes an example they can grab? At least it's finally starting to happen.

Simultaneous recording multiple audio tracks... Is there an iPad app that can do that yet since you can already use any class-compliant USB multichannel audio interface with an iPad? Garageband?

Yup, am both crazy and lazy... Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxYmVUB24KA - Konkreet Performer hits the big screen!

[LoopStationZebra]

Yup, am both crazy and lazy... Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxYmVUB24KA - Konkreet Performer hits the big screen!

That is SHIT hot.

[LoopStationZebra]

Back to MIDI sync, as you might have gathered only 2 apps offer it, but devs keep promising the feature. And promising. And promising.

The iMS-20 is the biggest crime, though. A truly incredible app hampered by SHIT MIDI implementation. Only MIDI receive; with no change in sight for send or clock. The good news is that at least most now offer send and receive.

LSZ, props for your constant pushing for full MIDI on iOS apps. It's CRAZY that it seems like most devs haven't thought about things like MIDI Sync for their apps until now. Yet there are devs who are now making both iOS and VST/AU plugin versions of the same software that can go back and forth across multiple platforms. It's almost as if they want iOS apps to stay crippled so as to not infringe upon the sales of higher priced desktop apps or something. Or they couldn't possibly believe that some people might want to use these devices with their regular computer setup at the same time, like you would with hardware synths? Maybe people are just lazy and everyone just waits until someone codes an example they can grab? At least it's finally starting to happen.

Simultaneous recording multiple audio tracks... Is there an iPad app that can do that yet since you can already use any class-compliant USB multichannel audio interface with an iPad? Garageband?

Tnx delicioso. And props to you for keeping the news threads going in Main.

There are 2 solid developer camps at this point in terms of iPad app MIDI:

1. Those that are fucking clueless about the need (and I don't say that lightly).
2. Those that recognize the need but struggle to implement (for a host of reasons).



While there are technical issues, and some iOS COreMIDI bugs, what is painfully obvious is that many devs just don't get the need for MIDI. There are several sequencing apps that have been out for ages, with regular updates since CoreMIDI was introduced, who still haven't even implemented MIDI. Based upon several email communications and back and forth posts I've had with them, they think I'm insane for even asking. At the same time, these folks pepper their iTunes advertisements with words like 'professional' when describing their apps. It's astonishing that people who are creating a music app - based on a fucking SEQUENCER ffs - wouldn't think that MIDI might be important. Look at the makers of beatmaker. They've got the 2nd version out, and that thing STILL doesn't incorporate MIDI.

You raise an excellent point about devs who are also creating plugin versions of apps. It's something that I'd only recently considered after reading more posts at the Korg forum. Maybe it's just a matter of time, money, and resources - and that's why the creators of something like the iMS-20 app have abandoned the thing in favour of more lucrative plugs?. Still, for the time it takes to actually build an iPad music app, I'm told that full MIDI implementation is rather painless.

Re: simultaneous recording of audio tracks within an app: I've not heard of any yet, and not sure what Garageband will be able to handle. In fact, I don't even know the MIDI capability of the Garageband app. Which does lead me to...

Serious, multi-channel interfaces and apps.
So far I don't know of any interfaces (or apps, for that matter) that support more than 2 channels. Will we see Garageband, or another app, support multiple audio outs to an interface; so that I listen to a click track on headphones but have the audio master going to some powered speakers? Or send a particular track through some external FX? And what of multiple input options? For recording a band or multiple external synths or whatever.

In fact, I'll be honest. I'm not even sure the iPad can support more than 2 channels of audio. I've done some research on this, but so far have only come up with a lot of SPECULATING on the subject.

http://forum.harmonicdog.com/viewtopic. ... 2&start=40





And, of course, all this leads me to the important question: Will we see a full service audio/MIDI interface for the iPad/iDevices? I'm thinking the iConnectMIDI, but with a slew of audio I/O.

[glitchrock-buddha]

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with Korg at this point. The iElectribe has NO MIDI functionality at all. Crazy.

You've got that iMS-20 controller? With the wood body???

No wood. It's the Korg Legacy controller for the MS-20 plug-in but it works instantly with the iMS-20 too. The cables even rearrange when you plug cables in the real thing.

[delicioso]

So far I don't know of any interfaces (or apps, for that matter) that support more than 2 channels.

I think these 4 channel interfaces are confirmed to work on the iPad with the camera connection kit:


I think it's already there on the hardware end, as long as it's class compliant. We're just waiting for apps to take advantage of it and so far the closest thing we have seem to be Harmonicdog's Multitrack app being able to record 2 mono sources to a single stereo channel with the pan hard L and R.

And, of course, all this leads me to the important question: Will we see a full service audio/MIDI interface for the iPad/iDevices? I'm thinking the iConnectMIDI, but with a slew of audio I/O.

Doensn't the Alesis ioDock have two audio inputs with phantom power and 2 MIDI in/out DIN ports as well as USB MIDI?

[LoopStationZebra]

Here's the kind of article over at synthtopia.com that FUCKING PISSES ME OFF.

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2010/ ... ce-coming/

USB audio support for the iPad is “nice-to-have”, but not essential.

If you want your iPad to have audio interface support and a hardware keyboard and to be able to run desktop music applications – you’re probably better off just buying a much more powerful Apple laptop.

What a douchebag. It's old and out of date, but it's the kind of thing that devs read and say 'yeah, wow. Maybe I don't need to bother with audio I/O routing options in my app".

[Tarekith]

Why are you so bent out of shape about this MIDI stuff? I don't mean to sound condescending, I'm genuinely curious as I don't understand. I'm one of those people who is like the author you quoted, MIDI is nice, but not essential for me.

I mean, I guess I can see it if you want to slave two sequencers, but not for much else, at least on the iPad. Using something like a midi controller with it seems counter-intuitive to me given how we all want better touch controls. MIDI clock, might be useful, but usually setting the app to the same tempo as your DAW works just the same in terms of time-synced delays and such. Maybe not 100 dead on, but close enough (and let's be honest about how stable our midi clock is with most computer DAWs anyway).

What is your workflow that this is so critical in something like the iPad (or a guitar processor)?

[LoopStationZebra]

Doensn't the Alesis ioDock have two audio inputs with phantom power and 2 MIDI in/out DIN ports as well as USB MIDI?

Oh, right you are about the Fast Track Pro! Any other multichannel class compliant devices that you know of?

The iODock is the one I'm going for, but lack of more than 2 audio channels kinda sucks. The way I understand the USB port is that it's for connecting the iODock to a computer only. I don't know if you can plug in an external USB MIDI device and have it talk to the app like you can with iConnectMIDI. ?

Users can also connect the iO Dock to their Mac or PC using the USB port to send MIDI back and forth for creative, new applications of the iPad and computer used in tandem.

I don't see why not, but..why wouldn't they say that in their description? Hmm.

Here's another question: Clearly it's exciting that the iPad can now talk directly to your computer via the iODock USB (something that's been impossible without a standard MIDI hug). I have no knowledge of the technical aspects, but why aren't we seeing an iPad to computer USB MIDI cable?

[LoopStationZebra]

Why are you so bent out of shape about this MIDI stuff? I don't mean to sound condescending, I'm genuinely curious as I don't understand. I'm one of those people who is like the author you quoted, MIDI is nice, but not essential for me.

I mean, I guess I can see it if you want to slave two sequencers, but not for much else, at least on the iPad. Using something like a midi controller with it seems counter-intuitive to me given how we all want better touch controls. MIDI clock, might be useful, but usually setting the app to the same tempo as your DAW works just the same in terms of time-synced delays and such. Maybe not 100 dead on, but close enough (and let's be honest about how stable our midi clock is with most computer DAWs anyway).

What is your workflow that this is so critical in something like the iPad (or a guitar processor)?

Fair enough questions.

The issue is important because of the opportunities that the iPad affords in terms of essentially having a 2nd computer at hand. You're looking at the iPad as many others do - a nifty little mobile device that just happens to have some nice music apps. I look at the iPad as a nifty little mobile device that's also a serious piece of external hardware. Why have MIDI on a new Korg synth?

Apps like NLogSynth Pro and the Korg iMS-20 provide a sonic and user experience that rival many excellent softsynths. The benefit with using these on an iPad is that you aren't using valuable CPU power on your laptop that might be better served supporting plugs or other softsynths or Guitar Rig. I think of the iPad and the apps as a piece of external hardware; little different than any external synth or drum machine. I love being able to take a MIDI track in Live, dump in an external instrument plug, then route MIDI and audio from the iPad into that track. When I play the clip back I can manipulate the iPad synth in any number of ways - just as I would with any other piece of external gear. I've suddenly got an amazing array of instruments that cost no more than $5 to $20 each.

The only way to truly make all that work is with full MIDI support. Clock becomes vital because something like the iMS-20 has an onboard drum sequencer, as well as tempo drive FX. Having to fuck with manually setting a tempo - especially in a live situation - sucks. Not only that, but many apps don't have a tap tempo button. Some do, some don't. There's a reason that external gear still offers MIDI I/O. That reason is just as valid for the iPad.

The real benefit of iPad MIDI comes with live performing. If you're strictly in the studio it may or may not be critical (though still very convenient). We're soon going to see the ability for 2 iPads to talk to one another in a performance situation. That's only going to work with MIDI, really. I wonder if the clock will be more stable? On that note, I've never had an issue with Live's clock when I used to run my Prophet08.

Whether it's an iPad or a Motorola Xoom or a Line6 guitar footpedal, at the end of the day it's all about flexibility in digital communication and opening amazing new doors of control in performing and studio situations.

I've spend a ridiculous amount of time scouring a buttload of forums for information/news/tests on iPad MIDI, and I'm shocked how few voices there are out there asking the hard questions and pushing devs to embrace this stuff.

Even in the area of audio that we were just discussing, there's shockingly few posts that I can find anywhere where someone is asking a basic question: "Are more than 2 audio channels possible with iDevices and their apps? I'm no visionary or trendsetter or uber geek. I'm just a Stick player and live performer who's excited as shit about the possibilities of utilizing all this stuff in a situation beyond noodling on the sofa.

[Tarekith]

I think it's as you say, we just look at the iPad differently. For me it's an all-encompassing computing device that just happens to have some music apps. It's definitely not something I've yet thought of as a standalone instrument, mainly because I haven't yet see anything for it that really gets me that excited (sans the Omni TR app, but that's a controller).

A lot of it for me is just not being sold on the idea of a touchscreen for performance or synth control. Doable yes, but I'm still not sure it's something that I'd use in place of a hardware synth given the chance. Who knows though, I think we're still in the infancy stage of touchscreens, and that no one has really come up with an input method that truly inspires me like that.

The other issue for me is audio output. The headphone out is OK, but not something I'd say was high quality. So we're left with add ons via the doc connector, or bulkier options like the Alesis IO that take away some of the allure of a thin tablet in the first place.

I've certainly done complete songs on my iPhone with BeatMaker and NanoStudio, and i'm sure on the iPad it would be the same. For me though, these are mainly useful tools for sketching ideas to expand on later in the studio.

[LoopStationZebra]

The exciting thing that will come along is the ability to dock the iPad right into a standard hardware controller; or even something like Maschine. We've seen this a bit with Alesis/Akai, but it's only the beginning. Or how about that Moog monster at NAMM that combines hardware and the iPad? Or the cool MS-20 kit that docks the iPad, but gives you real keys and knobs?

Remember as well that you can easily play an iPad app with any external MIDI keyboard via a routing in Live. I've done this as a test with my little LPK25 and it works great.

[hoffman2k]

I've seen a lot of arguing about tactile control and how the iPad doesn't have it, but I think people are missing the big picture there.
The most fun grooveboxes to work with where the ones that had a perfect blend of hardware control and transparent menu controlling. For all its faults, the MC-909 groovebox was a joy to play with. Recording sucked donkey balls...

A touchscreen device can be the cockpit that displays all the relevant info, with the ability to flip through menu's, settings and switch modes for your hardware controllers.
Take the BCR for example. What good are those LED rings really? If I'm controlling them, I can't see the lights. So I have to check the value. Might as well look at the iPad and see something more meaningful than a value between 0-127.
So now I have a doepfer Pocketdial. 16 encoders, no rings. And that is only until I finish my custom controller. 16 encoders with built in LED that changes color. Cold to hot...

Oh how I loath MIDI faders. You can never get that smooth chop you get on an Audio mixer. Might as well have the fader in the iPad then. And what is the point of knobs on touchscreens? Unless they're in the middle, the resolution is limited by the size of the screen.

Everybody can argue about their preferences. Touching a screen and turning a dial are 2 totally different things. You can do the exact same thing with the 2 methods. But you can't deny that there are some cases where one will win over the other in terms of usability.

tl;dr Hybrids rule the world!