the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
glenn303
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by glenn303 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:31 am

9Phase wrote:no, wait. you are going too far... falling into "science fiction"... try to come back to planet earth! My "chair analogy" was not mine. It was the user macmurphy who introduced that, i just answered him. Regarding all the rest: human language must be writable to be considered a tongue, otherwise it isn't. So it is music, being a language. It is not important "how" to write it, you don't need to write it on score sheet (this is just the better way to write it, at least on planet earth...). If you like, you can write it via morse code, too. But, to be considered music, IT MUST BE writable (with a pen, with a computer, with a midi sequencer, with a new form of code... everything you want: with Morse code, too, if you want to be original... the score sheet is just the best way known). It is the difference between music (writable) and sound, and/or (in human language) between a tongue and noises. That is why i can "translate" my italian thoughts into english: because of the universal rules of human language grammar. And you can correct my mistakes, you can understand i am not a native english speaker etc. because you understand the right rules, there is a code, and we must respect and follow them. Otherwise it becomes something different and you can call it "a strange echolalia, a strange ensemble of noises which remind a human tongue etc." So it is for music: without an understood code, it is not music anymore. It is just sound, funny, interesting, whatever you want... but unwritable.
You are Clutching at Straws.
If i go and hear someone play live i am listening to music. If i put that same persons cd and press play i am listening to music. Music does not have to be writable in order to be considered music. What about Musicians that play improv music? It wasnt written was it? But its still music none the less. :roll:

rote fahne
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by rote fahne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:53 am

Broccoli wrote:
rote fahne wrote:
9V wrote:I don't know, i cannot see counterpoints. Some here say "your's just an opinion" or "you have a narrow view" etc. But these are only emotive answers, IMO. That is when people, rather thant giving nice, strong arguments, tell names or tend to insult, as a defence. I wonder how can audio be considered "music" (unless in a naive, commonsense definition). Music is not the sound, it is the code. You can call the tolling bells of a church or the singing of the birds, or the voice of one you love "music" if you are a poet. But what i meant was something techincal, not emotive.
You know what I think, you just made this topic up to invalidate Propellerheads.

Rewire is only audio, so you decided that audio is not music, cause then it would be obvious for you that Rewire really sucked, cause it had nothing to do with music.

Took me a while to understand, but now it is all perfectly clear to me.

:lol:
Careful now! You'll be accused of being a Propellerhead fanboy even if you've never posted on their forum boards before... :lol:
Calling me a PH fanboy would be an emotive answer. LOL>

Mah, OP is confusing things.

You could have a discussion of Midi vs. Audio, a technical one. That would be a dreary and dry discussion, cause it would be obvious for all non layman wat is midi and what is audio.

Then there is a completely other discussion, and that is the discussion: music vs. sound, or sound vs. music: where does sound stops being sound and become music.

Thats a far more interesting discussion IMO and has nothing or little to do with the discussion midi vs. audio, cause these are only carriers of information.

Would also be great if OP (nove vu) had a link to his music, so we could hear what he is trying to say.

Broccoli
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by Broccoli » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:06 am

I think he is just trying to cause a sensation, he's not willing to discuss anything. Any diverging opinion is either "emotive" or the person in question is "naive", or, even worse, some "primitive" American... or maybe even some Propellerhead employee on a mission to get him banned! :lol:
Or an emotive naive primitive American who works for Propellerhead and holds a grudge against him! :mrgreen:

rote fahne
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by rote fahne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:16 am

Broccoli wrote:I think he is just trying to cause a sensation, he's not willing to discuss anything. Any diverging opinion is either "emotive" or the person in question is "naive", or, even worse, some "primitive" American... or maybe even some Propellerhead employee on a mission to get him banned! :lol:
Or an emotive naive primitive American who works for Propellerhead and holds a grudge against him! :mrgreen:
Thats yet again a different discussion.

Then he should have called the topic: Why Proppelerheads did not have the right to ban me.

And why we at this forum have to be polluted with this discussion, I dont know.

:(

crumhorn
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by crumhorn » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:20 am

If there were no people there would be no music. It has no existence other than in out minds. It is not a thing in itself but rather a classification of things.

If you ask "What is water?" I can easily point to some water or describe it scientifically. If you want to know the definition of music all I can do is point you to a dictionary. If you want to argue about the definition then you are on to a lost cause, because one person's definition is as good as another's.

IMO the difference between MIDI and audio is like the difference between a recipe and a meal. In that analogy would the word "music" be used more like the word "recipe", "food" or "cuisine"?

Personally I tend toward "cuisine" Which I feel includes the recipe the food and the enjoyment of the food.
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rote fahne
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by rote fahne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:23 am

crumhorn wrote:If there were no people there would be no music. It has no existence other than in out minds. It is not a thing in itself but rather a classification of things.

If you ask "What is water?" I can easily point to some water or describe it scientifically. If you want to know the definition of music all I can do is point you to a dictionary. If you want to argue about the definition then you are on to a lost cause, because one person's definition is as good as another's.

IMO the difference between MIDI and audio is like the difference between a recipe and a meal. In that analogy would the word "music" be used more like the word "recipe", "food" or "cuisine"?

Personally I tend toward "cuisine" Which I feel includes the recipe the food and the enjoyment of the food.
Interesting analogy of music with food. Criteria for food is also that it has to be digestible.

So if we transfer this criterium to music, it becomes indeed very subjective.

crofter
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by crofter » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:06 am

rote fahne wrote:
crumhorn wrote:If there were no people there would be no music. It has no existence other than in out minds. It is not a thing in itself but rather a classification of things.

If you ask "What is water?" I can easily point to some water or describe it scientifically. If you want to know the definition of music all I can do is point you to a dictionary. If you want to argue about the definition then you are on to a lost cause, because one person's definition is as good as another's.

IMO the difference between MIDI and audio is like the difference between a recipe and a meal. In that analogy would the word "music" be used more like the word "recipe", "food" or "cuisine"?

Personally I tend toward "cuisine" Which I feel includes the recipe the food and the enjoyment of the food.
Interesting analogy of music with food. Criteria for food is also that it has to be digestible.

So if we transfer this criterium to music, it becomes indeed very subjective.
Yup, one mans steak and chips is another mans witchetty grub
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9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:33 am

you are so funny, but still not enough IMO
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rote fahne
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by rote fahne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:40 am

9V wrote:you are so funny, but still not enough IMO
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?i ... view_peter
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Fourier.

rote fahne
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by rote fahne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:45 am

9V wrote:you are so funny
emotive answer.

crofter
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by crofter » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:47 am

There's nowt funny about steak and chips pal, not the way my missus makes it.
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rote fahne
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by rote fahne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:20 pm

crofter wrote:There's nowt funny about steak and chips pal, not the way my missus makes it.
I once went to England with a ferry from Hoek van Holland. When we arrived in Harwich, we had fish and chips, served in a newspaper.

Was really good, certainly digestible.

crofter
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by crofter » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:35 pm

rote fahne wrote:
crofter wrote:There's nowt funny about steak and chips pal, not the way my missus makes it.
I once went to England with a ferry from Hoek van Holland. When we arrived in Harwich, we had fish and chips, served in a newspaper.

Was really good, certainly digestible.
Now you're talking.
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sporkles
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by sporkles » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:29 pm

Wow! This was certainly an interesting way of wasting time.

The problem, 9V, is that if your definition were to be accepted, it would change absolutely nothing. It would only mean that we would talk about listening to "audio" instead of listening to "music". So, let's say that you "won" this discussion: what did you accomplish, aside from a towering nine pages of banter? (which, I'm beginning to think is exactly your goal, seeing as you were banned for the exact same thing at PH).

drewbixcube
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by drewbixcube » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:12 pm

crumhorn wrote:IMO the difference between MIDI and audio is like the difference between a recipe and a meal. In that analogy would the word "music" be used more like the word "recipe", "food" or "cuisine"?

Personally I tend toward "cuisine" Which I feel includes the recipe the food and the enjoyment of the food.
Excellent analogy, though I feel as though cuisine would be best represented by the genre of music, whereas the meal would be the song. Again, excellent analogy. There are definitely correlations between music and food. I think perhaps the most pertinent to this discussion is that you can still enjoy a meal without having to write the recipe down before doing so.

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