the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

[stringtapper]

Alas, all the things stringtapper said to me are not enough, and the reason is clear: he always talks about two, three avant-guard musicians who tried to change the ancient rules, but without success (infact music remains what it was and has always been: notes and intervals in time).

Simply not true. Most computer musicians coming from the "high art" tradition today compose outside of your "rules"; music that uses more than pitch, duration, and dynamics as foundational musical parameters. The fact that these composers exist today is proof alone that those composers I mentioned before (Schoenberg, Stockhausen, Ligeti, Chowning, etc.) did NOT fail and music has changed in the aftermath of their achievements. Just because it may be music that you or 99% of the masses don't listen to means absolutely nothing in the context of your argument and for you to cite popularity or even quality in support of the technical aspects of this debate is a sidestep that you have continuously used every time I punch holes in your argument.

[9V]

@supamonsta
well, you don't have to "follow" or to know those rules, actually. Everyone can create music, it is not necessary to write it. But 100% of "music", either composed by mozart or by a 5 years old kid, can be written on a score sheet (that's what musicians do: listen, for instance, to "Le Mystère Des Voix Bulgares" or to many popular, ethnic, folk songs, harmonized by musicians). It is like language and grammar: you don't have to learn to write and read... everyone can speak and understand words.

[supamonsta]

@supamonsta
well, you don't have to "follow" or to know those rules, actually. Everyone can create music, it is not necessary to write it.

well I'm lost now.

Do you have to follow the rules to write or play (your definition of)"music", or don't you have to follow them?
Is it necessary to write it, or not?

you seem to say both.

cheers

[9V]

you don't have to follow them, because they are "natural", like language. Of course there is a difference (in complexity) between a tune by chopin and a simple three chords tune made by an amateur. But it is always music! At the same time, i guess you understand the difference between a novel written by Dostojevskij and a little written composition made by a 6 years old pupil... But the "code" is the same (language). The Beatles, for instance, could not read and write music... But you can read/write their tunes on a score sheet... etc. Of course it is called "music"... because it can be read/written/edited. The rest is sound, even a child can understand the difference... not because it is a simple concept, but because it is a NATURAL human tendency (like grammar, movements, human feelings etc.).

[H20nly]

@ 9V (in response to your racist implications). i haven't read any posts about people down talking Italians. on the other hand, YOU have attacked every other culture by bringing up (more than once) your belief that Italians are superior to other nationalities due to some changes and omissions that YOU have made to history. i have seen plenty of jokes about that AND i've made many of them myself, no doubt. many of us have twisted those words and thrown them back at you... like the garbage they are.

those posts you made about Italians in movies... wtf do they have to do with anyone in this thread or on this forum? first off those are Italian Americans (or actors playing them) so you don't know anything about how they live in the U.S... most of those movies you listed revolve around New York and New Jersey... even if you put those two states together they hardly represent the United States, throw in Chicago while your at it and you still don't even have a handful. You think that your ignorance of the United States justifies another person's ignorance of Italy? is that some kind of twist on words... fight shit with shit?? you're reaching. stick with your 'only MIDI makes music' argument. HIStory doesn't suit you, neither does the role of Hollywood film critic.

[9V]

@ 9V (in response to your racist implications). i haven't read any posts about people down talking Italians. on the other hand, YOU have attacked every other culture by bringing up (more than once) your belief that Italians are superior to other nationalities due to some changes and omissions that YOU have made to history. i have seen plenty of jokes about that AND i've made many of them myself, no doubt. many of us have twisted those words and thrown them back at you... like the garbage they are.

you don't know anything about how they live in the U.S...
I know something, because i have relatives in new york, san francisco, detroit and boston (there are 60.000.000 italian immigrants outside italy, i guess almost every family in italy have relatives living outside italy... )




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgYwTnBIIQ

[H20nly]

maybe he is b0unce/dum. that cherry picking technique is quite familiar.

all major cities. FAIL.



the puppy chasing it's tail bit is getting old.
i'm done with this thread. i'm going to listen to some pre-recorded MUSIC and get some work done.

[9V]

Of course the "major" cities. They were workers. My uncle worked for General Motors in Detroit, and so the other relatives in San Francisco were workers and waiters... Immigrants go to big cities... You don't even know what I am talking about, alas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgYwTnBIIQ

[docprosper]

You know people who live in the US? How stupendously international of you!

[regretfullySaid]

Who's Bart?

[9V]

Who's Bart?

this is the problem...

[regretfullySaid]

Yes, I am part of the problem. Actually what you didn't realize is that I'm quite capable of finding out who Nicola and Bart are in 5 seconds. It's not rocket science. I found out from a company that's become so big their name has become a verb. This went over your head. Perhaps if you weren't inside a self-centered bubble you'd start becoming familiar with the names on this board and deduce that I'm being a smart ass.

Speaking of problems, how is it that you loved to boast how you wouldn't say anything political, yet the one thing you do is post a topic with your handle and 911 in the title? Arrogant much?

[9V]

911 is not "political" it is history, human history. The rest is music. Am I not allowed to talk about history?! Are antiwar pacifist songs not allowed?!

[regretfullySaid]

American history, and tragedy, but whatever; you can't argue with slime; especially slime that likes to slip it's way around through semantics and hyperbole.

[9V]

sorry, but i can't talk about politics, or i will be banned at once! The 911 thread was not about america, it was about peace. The rest, as i said, is only music. For instance, 911 here is something related to 1973.