Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

[supergirl36]

hey guys, Since august until three weeks ago i was on Pro Tools. While i was changing to Ableton, i discovered Native Instruments FM8, Massive and Battery. The sounds and configurations are amazing. I'll soon have the Suite, and was wandering what Instruments in Live are as good as NI ? Where should i start looking for good bass and synth sounds ? Thanks.

[Angstrom]

they are quite different things really, Live's instrument's are generally much more simple when taken on their own. Mostly they work best when considered in Racks, so while just one Operator can sound pretty good, perhaps a bit minimally electronic, but if it's in a rack stacked up with another operator underneath and with some effects on it will sound much more potent.

Of course the NI instruments such as Massive, or Kontakt (etc) include the effects and allow a lot of the fairy dust to be added internally. Ableton take the approach that their own instruments should have the effects be external, so a user can make their own 'preset' in a rack. For example : Ableton's DrumRack 'instrument' is very much an integrated part of the program, where Battery is self-contained.

I own both the Suite of Ableton instruments and the NI Komplete collection.
Both sets of things are quite different. I often use both DrumRacks AND Battery, Operator and FM8, Sampler AND Kontakt ... in a song.
They have their own personalities, their own strengths.

that may help, it may not!

[Forge.]

my view, simply, NI are great for switching through presets and sounding great out of the box, but harder to learn to program because their interfaces are very complex

Ableton instruments are really not that great for switching through presets, but much easier to learn, and MUCH quicker to program when you know how to use them. As I know how to use them I use the Ableton instruments (especially Operator) far more than I use my Komplete stuff.

One thing to consider is that if you are relying on better presets then you will get sick of them soon. I find it's not often I can't create the kind of sound I have in my head with Operator.

[Machinesworking]

Some Suite Instruments are competitive IMO, some are not.
Kontakt is a beast, Sampler is streamlined, the main advantage of Sampler is that it can self contain the samples it uses in a Live Set without having to do a "Save As" in the plug in itself. To do the same thing in Kontakt requires you to save the sound or Multi as a patch within the Live folder...

There is nothing like Absynth in Suite, conversely I think that Collision sounds better than the Reaktor Ensembles that are close to it, AAS know how to do physical modeling.

I just got Suite a while ago and haven't opened up to Operator yet, but I'll give it a go, haven't been that big of a fan of FM synths, I mainly like the sweet arpegiator.

I dunno, count me as one who hasn't warmed up to Live's approach to plug ins in general, maybe that changes once I get back into writing, still mixing down tracks.

[3dot...]

some (personal) observations...

NI kontakt is more robust than 'sampler'
FM8 is more robust than 'Operator'

then again.. as far as simplicity and streamlined use..
Lives' devices excel..
most of the time I'll grab Operator before FM8..
(but Kontakt before 'sampler' for BUILDING a patch)

collision/Tension/Electric are kindof unique..
in that they are physically modeled synths..
NI has some of those within Reaktor..
but again.. extra robust ..where Live tends to go for simplicity of use
(without compromising sound quality of course)


if you get Komplete you'll be a bit overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you get..
it's impressive.. but can also be confusing..
their instruments are excellent.. very cpu friendly
(but with a steeper learning curve)
the fx that come with guitarig/reaktor/absynth/kore etc.. are awesome as well..some of them also very much unique
it's a heavy duty package..
(only thing missing really is a sequencer )
and you will definitely not feel the need for any other vsts anytime soon..
also ...most of the samples in Komplete are better imo..
(even the "classic" drum machines..808s 909s etc..)

with the suite instruments..
(btw the extra suite fx are : 'corpus'/'amp'/'cabinet')
although excellent in their own rights..
is quite a different package..
and you might feel the need to get some more vsts to compliment..
although they do cover a lot of ground..
not nearly as much as Komplete.. for color..

to summarize and expand..
I don't know of ANY vst plugin package with better value than Komplete..
(especially when bought 2nd hand..)
that's not saying Abletons' stuff isn't awesome or not worth it..
because they are and it is!
(not really helping you here am I ...?)

[0fps]

I agree with 3 dot and Forge.

I think one of the most powerful instruments in Live is Operator. I think its equivalent to FM8 and most of it's presets are really good. Analog is a very good "analog modeling" v.i. but most of its presets suck. I think Massive is the best sounding virtual instrument till now. I also love Sampler cause of its simplicity and the modulation capabilities you have with all these LFOs and Envelopes. Of course Kontakt is much more "advanced" and has much more functions BUT its very hard to tweak it (at least for me ).

[Forge.]

... haven't opened up to Operator yet, but I'll give it a go, haven't been that big of a fan of FM synths....

sadly I think this is a common misconception with Operator. It's really not just an FM synth. It's FM, Subtractive and additive, and since Live 8 it got great new filters. It's amazingly versatile and so easy to program.

[3dot...]

Some Suite Instruments are competitive IMO, some are not.
Kontakt is a beast, Sampler is streamlined, the main advantage of Sampler is that it can self contain the samples it uses in a Live Set without having to do a "Save As" in the plug in itself. To do the same thing in Kontakt requires you to save the sound or Multi as a patch within the Live folder...

yep.. you do it once for a project.. (also in Reaktor..)

There is nothing like Absynth in Suite, conversely I think that Collision sounds better than the Reaktor Ensembles that are close to it, AAS know how to do physical modeling.

agreed..and agreed !
Absynth is da bomb really.. my goto for mostly anything !
Electric sounds better and more lively..
than any sampled electric pianos I know..including Kontakts..
Tensions is simply beautiful for otherworldly string instruments..
collision is also a favourite especially for low freq drums sounds..
and corpus...is simply beatiful..
but I think Reaktors PhisMod ensembles kinda compliments the AAS package..

I just got Suite a while ago and haven't opened up to Operator yet, but I'll give it a go, haven't been that big of a fan of FM synths, I mainly like the sweet arpegiator.

I dunno, count me as one who hasn't warmed up to Live's approach to plug ins in general, maybe that changes once I get back into writing, still mixing down tracks.

man.. you've got to get acquainted with Operator more deeply..
it's simply fun.. and is unique in some ways..
I used to do EVERYTHING with it..
the primary reason you should love it...
is it has Character.. it's dead simple..
and "feels" like an instrument.. a digital instrument..
good instruments always tend to be quirky in my experience..and Operator fits the bill
you don't HAVE TO use it necessarily for FM btw..
amazing for pads..
it's my usual goto for synth drums in general..

as for Lives' approach to instruments..
I'd have to agree that there are some advantages to using vsts..
but nothing that's a real "deal breaker" really..

and also... PM me with some rough cuts please !

[Anubis]

I own Komplete 7 and a lot of other Native instruments. But if you know how to coax it(and I don't), you can get anything out of Live's instruments. I got a very convincing theremin patch from Live. I don't know if it's still there.
Here's the track: http://soundcloud.com/pulczar/atlantean-threnody

[pencilrocket]

Absynth and FM8 are buggy. Don't buy if you feel suspicious. Garbage for that price. I wouldn't buy if they weren't sale.

[kanuck]

btw, thanks a lot for this thread guys. I've been bouncing around the idea of picking up NI Komplete but have been almost completely convinced on not getting it. As I thought before.. there's too much material (learning curve) for what it's worth. Might as well get really good with Ableton's native stuff.. Although I do plan on picking up a few third party effects, and synths along the way (maybe zebra and sylenth)

[Forge.]

btw, thanks a lot for this thread guys. I've been bouncing around the idea of picking up NI Komplete but have been almost completely convinced on not getting it. As I thought before.. there's too much material (learning curve) for what it's worth. Might as well get really good with Ableton's native stuff.. Although I do plan on picking up a few third party effects, and synths along the way (maybe zebra and sylenth)

I think that's a good choice. I mean it's hard to deny that Komplete is an impressive package, but if you stick with Ableton Suite for now, maybe until you have cash to splash next time for suite, you will probably have a much better understanding of how to program everything yourself.

[kanuck]

The danger with Komplete is that the sheer amount of stuff will make it so you never actually make music.

exactly my fear

[sigabort]

The only think I ever really use from Komplete is Massive for bass sounds (nothing quite like it) and Reaktor for running some ensembles. Other than that find the live plugins alot easier and speedier to handle, and that's definitely better for the not interrupting the creative workflow

[aizo]

I tend to think of Live instruments as Legos. By it self a cute plain little toy but if you like to build and customize, then you can make some really crazy stuff with them.