All this about sound quality

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
dbfs
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by dbfs » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:34 pm

I just want someone to post a science degree of some sorts so we can actually start scientifically researching this instead of blowing it off as something else.

See, but no one wants to do that work. Why? Because you cant prove it, ever! - And naturally, when humans cant prove something, they discredit it and quickly point to something they can prove. That's not science. That's ignorance!

3dot...
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:41 pm

dbfs wrote: See, but no one wants to do that work. Why? Because you cant prove it, ever! - And naturally, when humans cant prove something, they discredit it and quickly point to something they can prove. That's not science. That's ignorance!
+ infinity...
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nopattern
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by nopattern » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:50 pm

mholloway wrote:Gotta quote our own Angstrom here, from one of the other threads on this endless fight, because it's simply the best response I've ever seen to this hilariously tired issue, and should probably show up in every such thread from here on out ---
Angstrom wrote: some examples of transference
"Live has bad sound quality " = I worry that my own music is meaningless and worthless
"An Authority figure asserts Live is bad" = I lack confidence in myself and my decisions and look frantically to others for validation
"why is Live not capable of doing X" = why can't I do X ?
"when will the new version arrive" = when will I arrive

...etc
simple internet psychology!
:twisted:
right, apparently that guy doesn't know any musical geniuses because what is written there applies more to them than average people ;)what's that good old saying? "ignorance is bliss" !!

here's a better one. how about anyone with over 20k posts causes aliasing of information on the ableton forum. i think it's true, it's always these frequencies with the facepalm. those people obviously don't worry about the worth of their music. maybe cause they never needed to live from it

ps: i don't work for a software company

crumhorn
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by crumhorn » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:54 pm

Image

The thread's hollow — it goes on forever

oh my God - it's full of twats !!!
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

simmerdown
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by simmerdown » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:56 pm

glurp
Last edited by simmerdown on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Tone Deft
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:57 pm

crumhorn - elle-oh-f-ing-elle!!
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Hermanus
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by Hermanus » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:02 pm

I will never ever undestand people buying a software just for ranting after it again and again, over and over.

User makes the sound! Don't blame the machine, rather blame the man.

newboss
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by newboss » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:04 pm

mholloway wrote:Gotta quote our own Angstrom here, from one of the other threads on this endless fight, because it's simply the best response I've ever seen to this hilariously tired issue, and should probably show up in every such thread from here on out ---
Angstrom wrote: some examples of transference
"Live has bad sound quality " = I worry that my own music is meaningless and worthless
"An Authority figure asserts Live is bad" = I lack confidence in myself and my decisions and look frantically to others for validation
"why is Live not capable of doing X" = why can't I do X ?
"when will the new version arrive" = when will I arrive

...etc
simple internet psychology!
:twisted:
that quote is just an insulting and mobbing aproach of somebody that made a software to his replacement religion. As long there are issues normal people will like to ask questions.
They are customers.its theire right to question things.

And it should be actually intersting for ableton aswell to find answers to such question.. ok the next version was late this time.. thats another thing.. and just natural with a software that still is incomplete in so many areas that people want to see upgraded versions.. see the grouptracks..a feature that is at best only implemented half yet...

and the sound quality issue? why do authoritys feel obliged to make such statements in public? because they hate live? or because they hate the lies around it? or just as a honnest opinion?

Ableton should find out where this opinion comes from.. when we assume that they are not lying the apperance of sound degenerations must be either thru usage errors or thru functional errors => bugs or incompatibilitys.

In the first case they maybe should improove the program to help the user to avoid such usage errors => indication of SR statuts status. Mr Henke himself stated that he would like such a feature in the other thread.

Or in the second case.. making own efforts to find the bugs.. maybe making a competition with some prices to win for people that can show and proove them an audio degeneration.. that would make the hazzle worthwhile to try to generate prove. Or make them bankrupt because so many people would win a proice than ;-) so maybe they should limit that.. prices for the first 3 that proove them audio degenartions or worse sound quality in relation to other daws?

dbfs
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by dbfs » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:10 pm

See this just proves my point further - No one posting here has anything valuable to say about this. It's all posturing and hot air, with the occasional lecture on how to just "go make music". - Its way cooler to embed some stupid images and talk some shit and act all "in the know" then it is to actually try to figure out the problem at hand. I get that. You're a bad ass because you figure out how to post on a forum. *claps*

Anyway - At the end of the day, none of us really give a fuck what the other guy is doing with what to make is his or her shitty music. It doesn't matter. But we also need to realize that we don't know everything. The simple fact that we can't prove why people hear differently then others, should be caution enough that audio can be perceived in limitless variations. I mean... thats a pretty significant variable in the world of audio. Thats like.. the main tool EVERYONE has in common. And when everyone perceives something differently. Then something else, that is mathematically impossible to prove, is at work here.

simmerdown
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by simmerdown » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:14 pm

i think there are differences, for example frootyloops sounds (crappy)...but i think it wont be solved here (as there are no scientists)

i think you underestimate people, and make a lot of assumptions...which makes giving you crap all the more easy and entertaining

3dot...
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:15 pm

what's the SCALE man ? your own ears ?
you're dealing with a highly subjective matter you know...

Live doesn't degraded you're audio when recording..
phase cancels the summing bus with every other DAW..
if you use Lives' fx..
you can either like them or not...
that's your taste/style/whatever..
it's pointless
Last edited by 3dot... on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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newboss
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by newboss » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:15 pm

Hermanus wrote:I will never ever undestand people buying a software just for ranting after it again and again, over and over.

User makes the sound! Don't blame the machine, rather blame the man.
thats not true fore electronic music and especially for digital recording systems.

And daw´s have improoved during the last 2 decades also audio quality wise and that mainly because users requested a higher quality.. otherwise we still would work with 16bit /44k and a 24 bit mix bus.

Actually people that dont question their tools are not really into technical progress and development.

However.. when i would have the choice between a live version with significant workflow improvements.. like multiple arrange instances for example.. or multitrack clips..midi clips with warping... routing templates..non blind browser..mix settings recall, pre recording and so on..

and a version like now with its crude limits but super sound quality..

i would choose the workflow enhanced version..
Last edited by newboss on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dbfs
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by dbfs » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:17 pm

simmerdown wrote:i think there are differences, for example frootyloops sounds (crappy)...but i think it wont be solved here (as there are no scientists)

i think you underestimate people, and make a lot of assumptions...which makes giving you crap all the more easy and entertaining
Did it ever occur to you that I might be playing along too? :roll:

I'm giving you -1 internetz for being naive on the internetz

3dot...
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:21 pm

newboss wrote: However.. when i would have the choice between a live version with significant workflow improvements.. like multiple arrange instances for example.. or multitrack clips..midi clips with warping... routing templates..non blind browser..mix settings recall, pre recording and so on..

and a version like now with its crude limits but super sound quality..

i would choose the workflow enhanced version..
right... :|
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Angstrom
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Re: All this about sound quality

Post by Angstrom » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:24 pm

For those completely lacking any sense of humour or irony I will point out that pretty much any discussion on this subject is pointless on a forum like this. Mainly because it accomplishes nothing but noise.
Yes there are issues with Live, no the weird angry public guessing games do not fix anything.

You think the devs are reading through thousands of pages of guesses, heated arguments and name calling?
What is the purpose of shouting vague unease into the void like this? That is why my above quoted post is dismissive, not because I consider Live to be flawless (it has plenty), but because I doubt the sanity of anyone who thinks they are solving anything by arguing on a forum where the devs aren't.

It's like trying to fix a motorbike by arguing about carburettors with unrelated strangers.
Magical thinking!

Just to be clear: I mail ableton about problems with the software all the time. Long and often annoying complaints about things I think are wrong (eg the weird 64 bit (double) summing that produces a 32 bit product on the track). However- me writing about it here will merely produce yet more sound and fury signifying nothing.

However, feel free to keep shouting at each other on a forum where the devs aren't.

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