finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[JuanSOLO]

Well the problem there would be that I'm not a DJ, much respect for good DJs etc. but I tend to play keyboards and guitar 75% of the time in a live situation. So how a program handles changing plug ins and mapping FX etc. is paramount.

Precisely! I think a lot of Ableton users are confused or just dont know what Traktor offers in midi mapping, because they are not trying to be DJ's

In my Live set I use keyboards, synth plugs, guitar, and analogue synths. HOWEVER I use an APC40 at the hub of it all. THIS is where Traktor is excelling and I wish Ableton would take note of it. Not to mention NI has produced updates and controllers based on what users are asking for You have TONS of possibilities to create complex midi configurations and mappings, that can be SIMPLE to use, and they are simple to make.

I definitely dont want to see Live be more geared towards DJ's but performance YES!

[Machinesworking]

I really don't know what else to make of what you're implying.

I was commenting on the 'clone' debate, that's all.. not implying that much really..
you can laugh about the user requests part but let's face it; for BW that has been a free specification list..
so my point was and is; hardly any ideas/features are truly theirs..

So they are not innovative enough for you?
Well Apple didn't come up with the mouse and window environment, they saw another company Xerox who had developers and an in house version, but who refused to use it. So Apple are not original, and since Microsoft copied a copy, they're even less. Reality is though that Xerox had no intention of releasing a home computer with windows and a mouse, even though they could. That, my friend is exactly the same situation as users requesting Linux, dual monitor support, and Session automation recording. The indications have all been horribly negative on those fronts, that Ableton doesn't even have those on the table in terms of new features.

Again, Ableton cannot own user requests, and let's face it, things like dual monitor support, split screen views, 64 bit, a Linux version, and more curser tools aren't innovative, they're universally requested by most DAW users for most DAWs.

[Machinesworking]

Precisely! I think a lot of Ableton users are confused or just dont know what Traktor offers in midi mapping, because they are not trying to be DJ's

In my Live set I use keyboards, synth plugs, guitar, and analogue synths. HOWEVER I use an APC40 at the hub of it all. THIS is where Traktor is excelling and I wish Ableton would take note of it. Not to mention NI has produced updates and controllers based on what users are asking for You have TONS of possibilities to create complex midi configurations and mappings, that can be SIMPLE to use, and they are simple to make.

I definitely dont want to see Live be more geared towards DJ's but performance YES!

So how does Traktor use the APC40? curious?

[Hervé]

So how does Traktor use the APC40? curious?

Like this ?
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175259

[JuanSOLO]

Basically you have a midi map prefences page in Traktor.

You choose the parameter you want to map to, lets say thats gonna be a Clip Matrix button mapped to a cue point. So you choose a MIDI IN selection, then you "learn" the connection and choose options such as setting the value sent when pressed AND released, toggle or momentary or direct.

You can create a MIDI OUT mapping where you "learn" the clip matrix button and then choose the value going back to the APC40 setting your LED colors when pressed or released.

You can add modifiers to these mappings, like shift functions. So lets say I want the same button to have 2 functions. 1 functions would be to set a cue point, but I can add a modifier that the button will only activate a cue point if some other button (shift, or ANY button I assign to it) is NOT pressed, and when the other button IS pressed maybe it toggles on and off an effect.

ALSO, you can map as many buttons or knobs or faders to the exact same parameter. For example, lets say I want to push a button and turn on a delay's wet and dry to ALL THE WAY WET. But I also want a Fader to control that very same parameter, the dry/wet, AND I also want some knob to control that very same dry/wet.

Encoder sensitivity values, so if you map an encoder you can adjust how fast or slow the parameter moves when turning it.

With these options you can configure your own modes for the APC40, program complex actions for 1 knob, get all the desired LED feedback, make more shift+ functions than you'd ever need.

ALL this and it's really simple to do once you understand how modifiers work. It's kind of like a mini Bomes inside the midi preferences.

Granted there are drawbacks, the preferences window is not scale-able, so if you have a LOT of mappings going on, you have to do a lot of scrolling. BUT you can export maps for different controllers etc.

With what they are showing with the new controller, I am assuming there are even MORE possibilities now. Utilizing the color feedback for clips etc.

[Poster]

I really don't know what else to make of what you're implying.

I was commenting on the 'clone' debate, that's all.. not implying that much really..
you can laugh about the user requests part but let's face it; for BW that has been a free specification list..
so my point was and is; hardly any ideas/features are truly theirs..

So they are not innovative enough for you?
Well Apple didn't come up with the mouse and window environment, they saw another company Xerox who had developers and an in house version, but who refused to use it. So Apple are not original, and since Microsoft copied a copy, they're even less. Reality is though that Xerox had no intention of releasing a home computer with windows and a mouse, even though they could. That, my friend is exactly the same situation as users requesting Linux, dual monitor support, and Session automation recording. The indications have all been horribly negative on those fronts, that Ableton doesn't even have those on the table in terms of new features.

Again, Ableton cannot own user requests, and let's face it, things like dual monitor support, split screen views, 64 bit, a Linux version, and more curser tools aren't innovative, they're universally requested by most DAW users for most DAWs.

sigh, read my comments in the right perspective will you?.. clone or not, judged objectively, that was the issue at hand..
I did not say anything about not being innovative enough for me personally or who actually owns requests..

[cmusicmaker]

. If they try suing Bitwig, they will eventually lose, too many examples in other DAWs of outright copying of ideas and even lay out. Plus it would alienate some of their audience.

Yes. IMO there are no winners there. It could start a litigation ball rolling amongst DAW devs and even Plugin devs. It would be very sad to see the kind of at times comical but damaging litigation going on between a very aggressive Apple and defensive Samsung. Would be quite sad to see music software devs go down that route because Ableton got that ball rolling. Feature crossover and it appears even UI crossovers in places has been going on for years. Not sure how far Ableton would get. The devs with the deepest pockets might end up the 'winners'. Roland (Cakewalk), Yamaha (Steinberg) e.t.c

DAW features pre date many of the hosts we know today so it would be nigh on impossible to sort out.

[JuanSOLO]

I forgot to mention,

You can set a Knob to perform as "direct" and set the direct value. So if you wanted lets say that Knob works as normal and adjusts some parameter from 0-127, but lets say you make a modifier for it too, so when you are holding down button 'x' and turn the knob, it jumps directly to a value you set.

There is also "reset" setting for knobs, so you could map a button to reset knobs to values you assign and the LED's update too.


SO, if Ableton or Bitwig offered stuff like this plus the ability to color coordinate clips to LED's there would be no reason to learn remote scripting, spend money on Bomes or M4L just to get customized midi mappings for a wide variety of controllers out there. On top of that I can make a customized APC40 map in Traktor in a few hours, where it would take WEEKS/MONTHS in M4L or Bomes. And I am talking about pretty complex stuff, but easy to operate Mode wise.

Just to be able to tell an encoder to scroll slowly through drum samples in a sampler would be nice. And if Ableton took from these ideas, it would be amazing for those of us who like to customize their set ups and get the biggest bang for the buck on these controllers. I mean really, how often do you use the metronome button on an APC40 to activate the metronome? How often do you use the Cue Knob for the cue volume. You could use the Cue knob for a variety of functions depending on the mode your in, if Ableton offered this kind of shit.

[Poster]

the feature I'm really interested in is that BW allows you to have multiple audio parts inside one clip..
that's basicly the one feature I'm missing in Live..

[JuanSOLO]

the feature I'm really interested in is that BW allows you to have multiple audio parts inside one clip..
that's basicly the one feature I'm missing in Live..

I'm not sure I understand what that means, so curious.

[Ryanmf]

the feature I'm really interested in is that BW allows you to have multiple audio parts inside one clip..
that's basicly the one feature I'm missing in Live..

I'm not sure I understand what that means, so curious.

The first thing I thought of when I saw it was mlr-style clip juggling.

[Poster]

the feature I'm really interested in is that BW allows you to have multiple audio parts inside one clip..
that's basicly the one feature I'm missing in Live..

I'm not sure I understand what that means, so curious.

hopefully that means you can rearrange audio parts inside a clip..
or even paste parts from other locations..

this is how BW describes it..

An audio clip can contain multiple audio events.
You can chop and edit audio files inside a clip non-destructively and loop it all as a package.

[rikhyray]

Basically you have a midi map prefences page in Traktor.

You choose the parameter you want to map to, lets say thats gonna be a Clip Matrix button mapped to a cue point. So you choose a MIDI IN selection, then you "learn" the connection and choose options such as setting the value sent when pressed AND released, toggle or momentary or direct.

You can create a MIDI OUT mapping where you "learn" the clip matrix button and then choose the value going back to the APC40 setting your LED colors when pressed or released.

You can add modifiers to these mappings, like shift functions. So lets say I want the same button to have 2 functions. 1 functions would be to set a cue point, but I can add a modifier that the button will only activate a cue point if some other button (shift, or ANY button I assign to it) is NOT pressed, and when the other button IS pressed maybe it toggles on and off an effect.

ALSO, you can map as many buttons or knobs or faders to the exact same parameter. For example, lets say I want to push a button and turn on a delay's wet and dry to ALL THE WAY WET. But I also want a Fader to control that very same parameter, the dry/wet, AND I also want some knob to control that very same dry/wet.

Encoder sensitivity values, so if you map an encoder you can adjust how fast or slow the parameter moves when turning it.

With these options you can configure your own modes for the APC40, program complex actions for 1 knob, get all the desired LED feedback, make more shift+ functions than you'd ever need.

ALL this and it's really simple to do once you understand how modifiers work. It's kind of like a mini Bomes inside the midi preferences.

Granted there are drawbacks, the preferences window is not scale-able, so if you have a LOT of mappings going on, you have to do a lot of scrolling. BUT you can export maps for different controllers etc.

With what they are showing with the new controller, I am assuming there are even MORE possibilities now. Utilizing the color feedback for clips etc.

My fav midi controller programming concept, wish other softwares had such options.. Their X1 ist excellent- real plug in and use, no need to read manual. And that is where they go;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGxd1Cm2 ... e=youtu.be
BTW. Regarding Bitwig vs Ableton. I paid for 2 useless upgrades (6&7) was stupid to get the 3rd (8) which after 3 years still does not function as it should. My patience is long gone, my respect for Ableton as company …. hmmm, not sure. But as professional user, will always go for what works, I dont sentimental sentimental relationships with a hammer or bicycle.

[JuanSOLO]

.
this is how BW describes it..

An audio clip can contain multiple audio events.
You can chop and edit audio files inside a clip non-destructively and loop it all as a package.

I read that before, I guess it just puzzles my imagination somwhat. To me it seems to indicate a new idea of what a clip actually is. GEEZ so curious about this freaking beta, SO many questions.

[Poster]

.
this is how BW describes it..

An audio clip can contain multiple audio events.
You can chop and edit audio files inside a clip non-destructively and loop it all as a package.

I read that before, I guess it just puzzles my imagination somwhat. To me it seems to indicate a new idea of what a clip actually is. GEEZ so curious about this freaking beta, SO many questions.

have a look here: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 26&start=0