Problem with clip quantization

[tfm09]

Hi everyone!

Usually quantization works in both directions: When I set midi record quant to 1/8th and play, notes get moved to the nearest 1/8th. They get moved _forward or backward_ depending what is nearest.

With clip launch quantization it only works in one direction. If quant is set to 1 bar and I hit to early, the launch is held until the next bar starts. If I hit too late -- be it only 1 ms -- the whole clip is on hold until next bar.

In my eyes a sensible quantization for clips would still launch the clip if I'm too late, but adjust the playing position forward so the clip is in time.

Example with quantization set to 1 bar, 4/4 signature: If I hit the clip before beat 3 of the current bar is reached, it launches immediately and adjusts playing position accordingly. If I hit on beat 3 or after, launch is held back until the next bar starts.

I know this is somewhat possible to achieve using legato mode. But legato mode does the thing described above only for clips of 1 bar length and it is neccessary to have some clip already running in time.

So my questions are:

Has anyone else a problem with this?
Is there any simple solution that I have overlooked?
Is there any max4live patch to achieve such functionality? (I wrote my own but with a lot of clips it eats CPU like shit... Might post it in the appropriate forum...)


I hope i was able to describe this in an understandable fashion. If not, please ask for clarification!

Looking forward to your thoughts!
Ole

[MusicIsMath]

Set clips you are attempting to launch to no quantization, unless you are worried about this all the time and then the only way to do it would be to just have a stereo mixdown of your main backing and then just improvise with smaller loops and samples over the top in a 1 hit sort of fashion.

[tfm09]

Set clips you are attempting to launch to no quantization, unless you are worried about this all the time and then the only way to do it would be to just have a stereo mixdown of your main backing and then just improvise with smaller loops and samples over the top in a 1 hit sort of fashion.

Thanks for your answer! Sure there are musical concepts to work around this. But I want to be able to launch rhythmic clips that are in time with the rest of my band. And I consider 1 bar quant to be too inflexible. So let's for now say, my musical concept requires a functionality like I described in the OP.

[skatr2]

Are you doing this from a dj perspective or production/live pa perspective?

[simmerdown]

get the track playing in time, but with the vol down, or the main output of that track off

when the time comes just slap the fader up or turn on the track output

[tfm09]

Sorry for the late reply.

Are you doing this from a dj perspective or production/live pa perspective?

To elaborate more on what I'm doing: I'm in a band with drums, guitar, vocals and a computer running Live, which I handle.

Now for example we do something like this: Guitar starts playing some riff. I tap in the tempo. Perhaps I record the riff and loop it, while the guitar plays something else above it. When tempo is tapped in and Live is playing, a metronome is send from Live to the headphones of the drummer, who then joins in. Now instruments and Live are in sync.

Now I have some prepared clips, maybe additional beats, maybe a bassline, that I can throw in. Of course these elements have to be perfectly in time.

get the track playing in time, but with the vol down, or the main output of that track off

when the time comes just slap the fader up or turn on the track output

That is a possibility. The same can be more easily achieved using an empty clip playing in time all the time and other clips with the legato option on that you can switch to.

But that's too static. You have to set up everything and you have a problem with clips that are longer than 1 bar, because effectively clips are quantized to their length, not to 1 bar. (You can't launch a 4 bar clip in time on the start of any bar. You can only launch it every 4 bars.)

[oddstep]

I take the launch quantisation down to the finest resolution I can deal with and count beats. I don't use bar resolution quantisation when I have to fit in with other live musicians, its too easy to miss a cue by a nanobeat and then come in a bar late.

[tfm09]

I take the launch quantisation down to the finest resolution I can deal with and count beats. I don't use bar resolution quantisation when I have to fit in with other live musicians, its too easy to miss a cue by a nanobeat and then come in a bar late.

I for myself can't see how this solves anything. If I put quantization to 1/32 and come this nanobeat to late, I'm 1/32 off. With rhythmic samples that's a big problem. And for all samples, with which it wouldn't be a problem, it's no need to quantize anything anyways.

That's one big point of my criticism towards Live's clip quantization. It does not matter how fine grained you set it, this problem is always there.

[skatr2]

On my dj template I originally found to too hard to use quantize and get tracks to match up. What I did was turn it off...midi map the track forward/back to my apc40 nudge andused that to edge the track onto point by ear. Prob easier from adj perspective...but an idea.

[Hermanus]

practice practice practice...

Making music with electronic/informatic materia is like an instrument.
Don't practice and go for basic fun.
Practice and the show can begin.

I see a lot of rehearsal sessions with your band in a near future, this way you'll find what suits the best for your needs.

I could advice you to set the inner clip quantization rather then the global one.
So let say the clip quantization would be at 1/4 and the global at 1bar.

Just an example.

I wish you the best for sorting this out