Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

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dcocharro
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:56 am

Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by dcocharro » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:37 am

In music, it is the note or sequence of notes which precedes the first downbeat in a bar. In the latter sense an anacrusis is often called a pickup, pickup note, or pickup measure, referring to the syncopation.
In the same way you have 'loop locators' it would be nice to be able to define a anacrusis/upbeat sequence with locators inside clips.
Imagine a melody that starts in the end of section A and continues through section B, you are limited to do this type of composition, specially in in 'session view'.
For example when you start a clip in the end of a section A, Live would play first the anacrusis/upbeat defined by locators (still inside section A) and then would loop what is defined inside 'loop locators' (inside section B).
This should be able to give you a clear idea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacrusis

best regards

doctorzero
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:16 am

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by doctorzero » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:05 pm

+1 for this feature request. It seems like it would be very simple to do if 1.1.1 were defined, assuming the global quanitzation is large enough to fit the pickup notes once the clip is triggered.

jpgringo
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:48 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by jpgringo » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:45 pm

I second that +1. Not only for pickups (some musical phrases have those, after all!), but also just for riffs that have a 'push' on the first beat. I know about track delay, but that affects all clips on the track and all notes in the clips.

dcocharro
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:56 am

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by dcocharro » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:35 am

doctorzero wrote:+1 for this feature request. It seems like it would be very simple to do if 1.1.1 were defined, assuming the global quanitzation is large enough to fit the pickup notes once the clip is triggered.
Yes doctorzero, you are absolutely right.
Maybe there are some "work around" for this type of stuff, like use one clip that plays only once and then trigger the new section, I don't know how to explain, but this approach (for me) doesn't feel quite right, you risk to turn your session into a big mess... maybe I need to learn a few more tricks.

dcocharro
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:56 am

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by dcocharro » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:27 am

I created a small tune demonstrating the need for a extra clip (and row also) to create a anacrusis "effect".
http://www.mediafire.com/?nr1mmslgqita721

Basically, what I do in that demo is:
1. play section A
2. trigger anacrusis row
3. immediately after triggering anacrusis row I also trigger section B row to start all the parts at once.

Any suggestions?

thanks,
diogo

timday
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by timday » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:05 pm

dcocharro wrote:I created a small tune demonstrating the need for a extra clip (and row also) to create a anacrusis "effect".
http://www.mediafire.com/?nr1mmslgqita721

Basically, what I do in that demo is:
1. play section A
2. trigger anacrusis row
3. immediately after triggering anacrusis row I also trigger section B row to start all the parts at once.

Any suggestions?

thanks,
diogo
You could use follow actions to make the anacrusis trigger the B row automatically. It would still look messy but you wouldn't have to jump in and trigger row B straight away. You might need some empty clips on the rest of the anacrusis row with follow actions on them (to trigger the whole of row B). Is that the kind of thing that would help?

I accept it's a tweak to a workaround but, y'know, whatever works.

Saxer
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: Frankfurt/Germany

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by Saxer » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:25 pm

+1000!

for clip starts before the "one" but following the global clip start quantisation.

essential for funk, salsa, sycoped jazz and all music with notes 'crossing the one' of the bar.

dstill808
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:38 am

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by dstill808 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:26 am

Another +1 for me. Would be very useful for live performance, so that you don't have to think about launching clips with a pickup one bar before the real 'one' of the clip begins.

Currently I add extra empty space, so if the pickup is on the 'four,' I add three beats of black space before the pickup, and launch the clip a measure early. This adds extra work though, and also means that the launching of the clip is less intuitive. Great suggestion!

apren
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:21 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by apren » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:28 am

+1 Same here!!

It is indispensable for many styles of music!
Ableton Live Suite 9 - Ryzen 2700 - 16 Gb ram - RME Babyface - Dynaudio BM6A/Genelec 8020 - Free VST plugins.

Jbvdb
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:38 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by Jbvdb » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:07 am

dcocharro wrote:
doctorzero wrote:+1 for this feature request. It seems like it would be very simple to do if 1.1.1 were defined, assuming the global quanitzation is large enough to fit the pickup notes once the clip is triggered.
Yes doctorzero, you are absolutely right.
Maybe there are some "work around" for this type of stuff, like use one clip that plays only once and then trigger the new section, I don't know how to explain, but this approach (for me) doesn't feel quite right, you risk to turn your session into a big mess... maybe I need to learn a few more tricks.
Could you do this with follow actions?

ricksteruk
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by ricksteruk » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:11 pm

doctorzero wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:05 pm
+1 for this feature request. It seems like it would be very simple to do if 1.1.1 were defined, assuming the global quanitzation is large enough to fit the pickup notes once the clip is triggered.
Honestly I find it hard to believe that this issue has not been sorted out by now. 8O

Here's one way I think you could do it:
Add an "Anacrusis" control

It could either be a triangle you could drag on the Loop Brace section of the MIDI Clip Editor - and as well show in the Notes box in the Clip Editor section.

You could only drag it before the Start Marker - and only by up to 1 bar. (or it is not an anacrusis anymore - its just an entire extra bar)

Frankly after 8 years since this thread was written I would assume that by now Live would automatically tell when you play notes before the beat when you hit record and it automatically set this up for you. The Capture facility gives me hope that it might be possible to get this working.

As doctor zero pointed out in January 2011 - you would require Launch Quantisation to be large enough to hear the pickup notes. Usually I am using 1 bar launch quantise - and sometimes 2 bar if the tempos are a bit speedy - whereas the pickup notes in the musical phrases I've been playing are usually no more than 1 crotchet before Beat1 - and most commonly less than a quaver for those funky licks that pull before the beat - or where the sound you are playing has an attack and you need to play slightly before the beat (or "strum" over the chord notes)

Sorry if this post sounds a little snarky :oops: - but surely this is more important than yet another bank of drum samples?

markand
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by markand » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:00 pm

A big +1 for this. The lack of this feature usa I've of the big things that prevents session view from working for me. I frequently have loops that at the very least start slightly anticipated - like 1/16 before the 1.

What's particularly frustrating about this is that a clip almost has everything it needs to do this, but the timing if off. I can currently record a clip and set the loop start to where the one is and the start marker to an appropriate place for the anticipated start. However, when I play this, the 1 happens on the start, not the loop start. I'd like to to start on the 4 or whatever it would be if loop start were indeed on the 1.

Ableton - PLEASE make it so clips to not have to start on the 1!
Mark

pottering
Posts: 674
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by pottering » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:16 pm

Clips don't have to start on 1.

Clip Start and End Markers are independent of the Loop Markers.

MIDI Clips and Warped Audio Clips can have negative values for the Start Markers (just type -1 or -2) .

markand
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by markand » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:00 am

Clips don't have to start on 1.

Clip Start and End Markers are independent of the Loop Markers.

MIDI Clips and Warped Audio Clips can have negative values for the Start Markers (just type -1 or -2) .
I do understand that. Here's a scenario. Let's say I have a 2 bar clip and I set the Clip Start at 1.4.1, the Loop Start at 2.1.1 and the Loop & Clip End at 3.1.1. If my quantize is set to 1 bar and I play the clip while another is playing, on the 1, the clip starts playing at the Clip Start so what was supposed to be on the 4 is now on the 1. The "Loop" is now offset so that it's on the 2, if that makes sense.

Is there a way to have it that if the clip start is on the 4 that it actually plays on the 4 and that the clip start is synced to 1?
Mark

pottering
Posts: 674
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: Be able to define anacrusis/upbeat sequence inside clips

Post by pottering » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:49 am

Ah, I see.

The only way I can see (besides triggering manually or Ghost Clips) is setting Global Quantization to 2 bars, then set the Clip with "anacrusis" to 1 Bar Launch Quantization, and set the Start Marker to -1 bar.

You start playback WITHOUT triggering those intro Clips (they have to be fully stopped, without the green arrow).

Then you trigger the intro Clips with the Scene button, the one with anacrusis will play before the others with 1 bar quantization, the others will start with the 2 bar Global quantization.

Probably needs to add a extra bar to the Follow Action time of the anacrusis Clip too.

Don't know why it ignores Launch Quantization when starting playback by clicking the Scenes.

[EDIT:] Of course, there are ClyphX and M4L devices like Isotonik's Follow.

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