Take notes from Bitwig

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
leipies
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Take notes from Bitwig

Post by leipies » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:01 am

I'm sure the Ableton devs are well aware of Bitwig considering some of it's employees used to work at Ableton, but I think they need to take some lessons from them and their recent behavior. Their innovation and open communication about sharing features with the community is exactly what Ableton should be doing. Live is very innovative and well integrated into the music production industry, but please implement the social mentality that Bitwig has. I'm sure you are planning a massive overhaul for Live 9 because if you're not it looks like you are going to be up against something that is exactly what I'm looking for. (granted it's not super buggy).

I want to stay with Live overall because I'm familiar with it and know that at it's core it's a very innovative company, but please at least tell us (the ones who are paying for your product and who want nothing more than a simple word to hang on) something tangible about the progress being made.

I dread the idea of having to switch DAWs, yet again, but the openness of Bitwig mixed with a very similar (perhaps even improved) workflow to Live is very hard to argue with. Could you please just reassure us that these sort of things are going to be included in Live 9 (as well as a rough time estimate)?

Some of Bitwig's features include:

• 64-bit compatible
• Native Linux support
• Dual monitor support
• Split view between Arrangement and Session views
• A resizable clip matrix
• Overlaid automation on clips
• Automation on a per-note basis in the piano roll
• Generic tracks that accept both audio and MIDI simultaneously
• An aesthetically pleasing GUI

Including features to be released after 1.0

• LAN multi-user jamming
• Multi-user music production over the internet
• Native modular system

I think this competition is necessary to make the Ableton devs realize they can't sit quietly and leave their customers hanging for years without any clue as to when to expect certain, much desired functions. Check out Bitwig's site... it's basically what I wish the Ableton site looked like right about now: http://bitwig.com/bitwig_studio.php

hatefish
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by hatefish » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:01 pm

+ 1001

pskept
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by pskept » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:06 pm

i thought this thread was going to be about routing midi.

Burn's
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by Burn's » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:16 am

And please make Live working with more than 4gb of ram, or give us an alert when we use more than 4gb to avoid the loss of the project !!!
I lost 3 project because of that !!!!!
It's a crazy issue in Live 8 !!!

ze2be
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by ze2be » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:34 am

Burn's wrote:And please make Live working with more than 4gb of ram, or give us an alert when we use more than 4gb to avoid the loss of the project !!!
I lost 3 project because of that !!!!!
It's a crazy issue in Live 8 !!!
64bit would fix that. But a ram-crash warning would be a big savior, for real.

H20nly
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by H20nly » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:17 pm

leipies wrote:I'm sure the Ableton devs are well aware of Bitwig considering some of it's employees used to work at Ableton, but I think they need to take some lessons from them and their recent behavior. Their innovation and open communication about sharing features with the community is exactly what Ableton should be doing.
:? i missed the part where Bitwig is doing anything other than advertising right now.

last night, i woke up late with the television on... i heard that for 2 easy payments of $19.95 i can lose weight fast and there is no sense in not trying it because there is a no hassle guarantee. does Bitwig have that kind of commitment? maybe Ableton could take some lessons from infomercials and snake oil salesman too.


Image
:|

CarlSeleborg
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by CarlSeleborg » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:54 am

Hi Leipies,

It seems to me that we're not doing anything differently than Bitwig. Just like them, we spend a lot of time working on the next version (the first in their case), and when we feel we're ready, we announce it and then it takes a little while before the actual release. For 3 years, Bitwig said no word about what their software would do, just like Ableton has always done. I see little difference here!

Believe me, we're not asleep! A lot of us would just love to tell you guys about Live 9, because it will be a kick-ass release. It's a little frustrating for us as well, but that's the game. On the other hand, Bitwig just announced their software, which they've been working hard on for a long time, so it's only fair that they get their share of attention now.

However you're right on one point: we do welcome competition! We've been sitting alone in our market segment for a very long time, and there's nothing better than competition to wake you up and release the good creative energy, and boy do we have that in store! We're very much looking forward to competing on features, user benefit and innovation, but please bear with us if we choose not to play the Internet-buzz game, because it's not in our values and we're working hard on stuff that matters instead.

Let's wait for Bitwig Studio to be released, and may the best product win!

Carl

leipies
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by leipies » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:54 am

I really just can't get over the fact that Bitwig built an entire DAW from scratch in the time it took Ableton to make a version update, and it is full of features people have been begging Ableton to implement.

ze2be
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by ze2be » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:02 pm

leipies wrote:I really just can't get over the fact that Bitwig built an entire DAW from scratch in the time it took Ableton to make a version update, and it is full of features people have been begging Ableton to implement.
Is it now. And what do you know about that other then a few pictures and a few lines of promo text? You dont know jack shit about it before it is relleased to the public. Any new daw will say it is going to be fantastic. My guess is a tonn of bugs and loads of missing futures.

sigabort
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by sigabort » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:11 pm

overhauling an existing 8 year old system is always harder than writing things from scratch. legacy code, code which is core to the system which people don't understand 100% as the programmer has left, technological limitations that no longer exist - addressing all of these and not completely breaking a system is a challenge in itself. i'm sure the abes would love to be able to avoid all this and do a rewrite to overhaul large parts of the system, but this is not a logical solution when you actually have a customer base to support - it would most likely end up being more like a new product than an upgrade. can you imagine how many forum gripe threads that would start? :)

leipies
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by leipies » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:24 pm

sigabort wrote:overhauling an existing 8 year old system is always harder than writing things from scratch. legacy code, code which is core to the system which people don't understand 100% as the programmer has left, technological limitations that no longer exist - addressing all of these and not completely breaking a system is a challenge in itself. i'm sure the abes would love to be able to avoid all this and do a rewrite to overhaul large parts of the system, but this is not a logical solution when you actually have a customer base to support - it would most likely end up being more like a new product than an upgrade. can you imagine how many forum gripe threads that would start? :)
Ableton isn't even 64 bit. There are many DAWs around the same age (or even older) than Ableton that have this crucial update, so legacy code shouldn't be used as a reason not to update.
Last edited by leipies on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leipies
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by leipies » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:30 pm

ze2be wrote: Is it now. And what do you know about that other then a few pictures and a few lines of promo text? You dont know jack shit about it before it is relleased to the public. Any new daw will say it is going to be fantastic. My guess is a tonn of bugs and loads of missing futures.
I know a lot more about it than I do about Live 9.

crumhorn
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by crumhorn » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:32 pm

Can I have the F# ?


<-- sound of tumble weed drifting past -->


Sorry nothing constructive to add
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

ze2be
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by ze2be » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:24 pm

leipies wrote:
ze2be wrote: Is it now. And what do you know about that other then a few pictures and a few lines of promo text? You dont know jack shit about it before it is relleased to the public. Any new daw will say it is going to be fantastic. My guess is a tonn of bugs and loads of missing futures.
I know a lot more about it than I do about Live 9.
And you know nothing about Live 8? 9 will have ALL the futures of 8, and most likely some new stuf too. In other words, you know a shit load more about Live 9 then Bitwig, if you open your eyes. At least 90%. Its been coded, bug fixed and polished for 8 versions.

leipies
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Re: Take notes from Bitwig

Post by leipies » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:09 pm

ze2be wrote: And you know nothing about Live 8? 9 will have ALL the futures of 8, and most likely some new stuf too. In other words, you know a shit load more about Live 9 then Bitwig, if you open your eyes. At least 90%. Its been coded, bug fixed and polished for 8 versions.
If you go back and reread my initial post you will see I'm a huge fan of Ableton. I want nothing more than for Live 9 to be amazing because I truly want to stay with Ableton. But I just think they need to step their game up a bit because even though they are one of the most innovative DAWs, they are getting outdated in some very basic ways.

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