Why do some "Mastering Engineers" require wavs at -6db?

[Tarekith]

Keep your mastering engineer happy

[Tone Deft]

Keep your mastering engineer happy

don't eat the last chocolate muffin.

[H20nly]

can you solve this puzzle without the blank square?

[Tone Deft]

I can't get the squares to move.

[H20nly]

I can't get the sound to move.

edited for M.E. perspective.

[lunabass]

apologies tempus3r, i should of stated i was talking about peak level not rms. not applying compression or limiting to the master track goes without saying.

so basically it's as i thought, if they receive it at -8 or -1 it's really not going to make any difference, gain reduction can be applied before an eq boost if needed. i'm more than happy to keep my mastering engineer happy though

i master all my own demo's before sending them out and i'm now at the stage where a couple of labels have preferred my masters over theirs and i'm receiving more mastering requests from others which i've started doing. i just wanted to make sure there was no -6 voodoo i was missing out on

[synnack]

I think it comes down to this-

Tempus is jet lagged and not making much sense.

The 6 dbs headroom is a safety margin so you don't give the mastering engineer any little peaks you might not have noticed, and it keeps them happy.

I read the question wrong. The discussion should have been about peaks and I was talking about how loud the track is in general. However there isn't much more to say on this either way. To the OPs point, "headroom" doesn't really matter for peaks, an engineer can just turn it down when mastering however:

People ask for lower peaks anyway because it tends to keep people from compressing and brick wall limiting when they send you their track to master.

So just do it?

[timothyallan]

How apt! Just to add some more to the fire:

This morning I had to tell a chap who sent me a single for mastering that this is a no no. Lowering the fader does not give you headroom if you are still limiting. Technically, this is a file which peaks at -3db, however, it ain't a good -3db

[H20nly]

^

clipping with headroom

or

clipped clipping

[Tarekith]

I get those all the time, I never understand it either. Wave Editor huh? You're going to love version 2

[patrick.olson86]

One thing helps with how you record your tracks. You want to aim for that sweet spot of -6db on your DAW for the tracks because a lot of interfaces' preamp converters peak at that level. That was a very bad explanation, but it basically means when you see clipping on your hardware (aka the meters are going to the red) it's really converting to -6db on your DAW not 0db as you would expect. What this means is that you want to set your faders so that your recording is peaking at -6db. You might think it sounds wimpy at this point, but your mixes will be cleaner and this will give you more headroom to add compression, eq (which will be more responsive at these levels), gain, whatever your heart desires.

It's an interesting topic within the "loudness wars" going on these days. So, then when you have a clean mix, you can bring your master track down so that it's peaking around -6db as well (same concept from tracking to mastering) and then bring it to the mastering guy. He then has this headroom to work with overall compression/eq/limiting/etc.

[Tarekith]

Yes, exactly.

[patrick.olson86]

Woo! I feel like I finally figured something out! Ok, I wish I could find the website that explained this better, but I can't. I did a little searching and found this, which seems like it has some good info for those still seeking more:

http://dbzeebee.blogspot.com/2009/10/di ... thumb.html

[zstur]

Sorry to bring this discussion back. I'm wondering if you guys found out anything new? The only reason I'm finding for keeping a mix below -6db is because Digital DAWS might not catch some clipping, possibly because of sample rate or just not being that fast. If it wasn't for that, then mixing just below 0db would be fine. Is this right? Assuming all things the same, with no compression and limiting and stuff.

[Tarekith]

Correct. It's just a bit of safety net so you really don't have to worry about it or pay much attention while working on the important part, writing the song. If you're 100% sure you're not clipping, there's nothing wrong with mixing to -0.1dBFS.

But at the same time, doing so doesn't really by you much other than from a theoretical view. Not worth the time adjusting and readjusting the mixdown IMVHO.