Are "breakdowns" 100% necessary in Electronic Music?

[beatmunga]

Still the confused face?

OK, even easier for you:

Breaks are all beat. Breakdowns are an absence of beats.

[ian_halsall]

Go the John Cage way and have only 1 breakdown and nothing else.

4 minutes 33 seconds.

[3dot...]

Still the confused face?

OK, even easier for you:

Breaks are all beat. Breakdowns are an absence of beats.

thats what I was saying all along..

[beatmunga]

Still the confused face?

OK, even easier for you:

Breaks are all beat. Breakdowns are an absence of beats.

thats what I was saying all along..

No it wasn't.

well...you see...
where I'm from...that's not a break..
a break is (traditionally) when everyone moves out of the way to let the rhythm section get some..
then come back in to the beat...
hence.. break-beat...

in electronic music..
a "break-down" is afaik (aside from the mental state) when there's a SUDDEN removal of most of the playing parts/energy..
while leaving some percussive element..

those 2 terms seem to mean just about the same to me..

[3dot...]

well...you see...
where I'm from...that's not a break..
a break is (traditionally) when everyone moves out of the way to let the rhythm section get some..
then come back in to the beat...
hence.. break-beat...

in electronic music..
a "break-down" is afaik (aside from the mental state) when there's a SUDDEN removal of most of the playing parts/energy..
while leaving some percussive element..

those 2 terms seem to mean just about the same to me..
(which differ from the term "breakbeat" as a genre)

much of the same thing..

[beatmunga]

well...you see...
where I'm from...that's not a break..
a break is (traditionally) when everyone moves out of the way to let the rhythm section get some..
then come back in to the beat...
hence.. break-beat...

in electronic music..
a "break-down" is afaik (aside from the mental state) when there's a SUDDEN removal of most of the playing parts/energy..
while leaving some percussive element..

those 2 terms seem to mean just about the same to me..
(which differ from the term "breakbeat" as a genre)

much of the same thing..

But the "leaving some percussive element" does not apply to a breakdown. Whereas it wholly applies to a break.

So they are not alike in the slightest.

[3dot...]

it has the same effect..
high contrast movement..loud/silent.. while keeping the groove alive.. and the listener expecting a comeback..

[beatmunga]

it has the same effect..
high contrast movement..loud/silent.. while keeping the groove alive.. and the listener expecting a comeback..

To a point, but breaks make people dance more... Kool Herc spotted that 40 years ago, and Hip Hop was born.

Breakdowns generally stop people dancing.

As someone who's heard a lot of both in dance environments, the two could never be confused...

[noisetonepause]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[Tone Deft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

coming from the guy whose login is a breakdown.

[beatmunga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

That's not an argument, that's just contradiction.

No it isn't.

[Rabalder]

It's been known for a long time that there is nothing new under the sun.

I'm a linguist by day (and night, really), so I've spent a good chunk of my time worrying about how meaning works in language, and come to (read and accepted) the conclusion that meaning is always ascribed by the hearer with no access to the speaker's actual intentions. So you can't really say that a given statement has such-and-such meaning: you can say it was produced with the intention to provoke a certain meaning in its receiver... but for this to work the two have to share a certain frame of reference, know that this combination of sounds refer to this object or concept, and to know when it is customary to invoke such references, and how. Reference, meaning, is not part of the sound of spoken language.. it's something that happens when a person with the right knowledge hears that sound. Case in point: Eliza. Eliza didn't "know" what she was saying, but she came close enough to fool some people.

And I think music is the same, I know what counts for me, what works, and you know what counts for you, and you can get that from something someone else has meticulously crafted or it can just happen by accident. I think that's the last definition on the Wikipedia list there... music is experienced, not made.

I agree about what youre saying, but I think youre sort of taking two sides on that last part..
I have many times started out actively disliking some random music (or my refrigerator making noise for that matter), which I 5 year later cant get enough of.
Thats actually a very strange process to go through if youre mentally aware of the change slowly taking effect..!

I still remember the first time I heard Autechre´s Gantz Graf.. "What the fuck is this awful noise?? You must be a fuckin idiot to listen to this crap.....!!!!" Two years later someone else was screaming those exact words into my ears..

Anyway, we basically agree, even though comparing musical sounds to communicative sounds?? ....yeah ok, Ill bite. Like you said; one has to share some sort of reference to make either work.
I bet the process of "hearing music" starts with sounds making you feel a certain way. After that, the brain probably starts decoding the sounds making them understandable to you as a unique individual. The more you appreciate it, the more the brain decodes it. HOW the brain decodes it is probably a result of what youve been exposed to earlier in addition to genetics.. Probably, maybe, or maybe not..

Music does however make the brain release dopamine. Now why the hell does it do that? That implies that music has the same effect on a human beings as sex and food. No news there really, but WHY does the brain award us for listening to music?? And only so with music we find personally stimulating??
This is in fact being researched, but still no answer from the science community.
God damn it I want answers!!

[noisetonepause]

Not sure you'll ever get science to answer "why"... you could maybe get an evolutionary something half-answer, it helped us on the savannah because the girls who felt the music more and danced better got the guys with the better genes, whatevs, but nothing closer than hat.. and you're right, it is quite weird the trash that some people enjoy and call music!

[Rabalder]

I suppose being "good at music" is somewhat the equivalent of dominating the flock in terms of having the biggest muscles, which ultimately leads to attracting the women.
Makes sense..

[Dave00]

wow.. can't believe this is a topic.. the best electronic music has no 'breakdowns'. Flying lotus? africa hitech? amon tobin? sound of amsa? aphex,square,chemical etcetc ???