Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Post Reply
Piplodocus
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Piplodocus » Thu May 17, 2012 11:50 am

Was just looking at old threads I'm subscribed to and think I came across a little gem in one.

Just tried this...

http://osxdaily.com/2011/02/21/adjust-a ... s-renicer/

Set Live to -20 and then messed about with a set which was totally flawless and glitchless whilst encoding a movie at 100% CPU usage! Methinks this could come in v handy sometimes to make the audio totally solid. (Not that I usually encode movies while making music, but now you can perform live whilst ripping a DVD for the after party!) :lol:

Original post was full of other ideas too here... oh, hang on, I've closed the tab now and lost it, but if it was you said it have some credit! Search the forum for that link above and I guess you'll find it!

alexjholland
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:22 am
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by alexjholland » Thu May 17, 2012 12:17 pm

Very interesting. I'd like to hear from someone with more experience/understanding of this program and its implications before installing it though.

From the sounds of their description, knocking the dial all the way to full-priority wouldn't just prioritise Ableton, but actually perhaps cause undue stress to the Mac?

That said, with a quad-core i7 and 12Gb of RAM performance has not been an issue yet!

Piplodocus
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Piplodocus » Thu May 17, 2012 2:58 pm

The original post included lots of ways to stop the intel chips speed stepping etc, which I'm not too keen on as it's permanently throttling the system up.

However, this instead basically means if it's between iTunes, mail, time machine backups, etc, then Ableton will always win. Apparently from what I've read the system itself has access to higher priorities than -20 though, so if OSX really wants to do something it will, regardless of what priority you set Live to using this!

Obviously if you make every process running have higher priority you might have problems, but making Live (and maybe some other audio apps) have higher priority over say checking iCloud syncing, incoming mail, or other stuff I might not want to disable makes logical sense to me.

Haven't tried it extensively yet, but basically you run this little app (which is just basically to save poking around with the command line and having to work out the Process ID [PID] from Activity Monitor) and apply higher priority to Live after you've opened it up. If you quit live, next time you open it it'll have normal priority 0 again. So I figure I can try and experiment with it, nothing lasts or is permanent, and if it helps I'll use it more often. I wouldn't open it for the first time and slam live on -20 setting at a gig having never tried it before, but might be worth OSX users all trying it at home/in the studio and seeing if you get no difference/positive difference or (hopefully not) some performance loss until you next close and reopen Live. Especially if you run quite large sets or occasionally get the odd glitch that's not just due to maxing out HDD access speed.

Obviously OSX isn't aware that if your set glitches on stage you'll look a twat, else it would probably give it slightly higher priority to begin with!

alexjholland
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:22 am
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by alexjholland » Thu May 17, 2012 3:09 pm

You wouldn't have thought (if it is so simple) that Apple would have reason not to install a simple function for 'performance mode' to switch it to prioritising any number of programs for live use etc?

masterblasterofdisaster
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:43 am
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Thu May 17, 2012 3:34 pm

Piplodocus wrote: Haven't tried it extensively yet, but basically you run this little app (which is just basically to save poking around with the command line and having to work out the Process ID [PID] from Activity Monitor) and apply higher priority to Live after you've opened it up.
Yes, as you've described above:

ps -ef | grep Live (get pid, which is 2nd column value)

then,

sudo renice <nice value> -p <pid>

masterblasterofdisaster
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:43 am
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Thu May 17, 2012 3:47 pm

alexjholland wrote:You wouldn't have thought (if it is so simple) that Apple would have reason not to install a simple function for 'performance mode' to switch it to prioritising any number of programs for live use etc?
Defeating the role of the scheduler probably wasn't the first thing they had in mind.

I would assume that most people don't really understand what's going on under the hood, what preemptive multitasking is, and that there are consequences (albeit short lived) to changing process priorities.

Otherwise, it is genuinely simple to do in a shell.

Piplodocus
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Piplodocus » Fri May 18, 2012 10:12 am

alexjholland wrote:You wouldn't have thought (if it is so simple) that Apple would have reason not to install a simple function for 'performance mode' to switch it to prioritising any number of programs for live use etc?
If I made an OS I wouldn't want to advertise to the average man in the street that they could change apps priorities if they thought they knew better than the OS scheduler. There's a lot of idiots out there who would try maxing out too many things and just being a twat with it and possibly jamming their OS up by trying to put everything in "performance mode".

The fact is though that I do know that Live's scheduling is a lot more important than say givng MS Word and Excel a high priority "because I want my spreadsheet to calculate faster and my document to scroll more seamlessly". No-one bats an eyelid with all the fiddles people do to Windows turning on and off system things to make their OS work smoother with fewer overheads to help the DAW run smoother. I remember in XP changing many system settings that would schedule more server-like processing in exchange for GUI updates, and turning off lots of other things that would make the OS run smoother for the normal people at the expense of possible DAW processing power continuous throughput. I regularly see new Mac owners on here saying "what do I do to OSX to make it run great as a DAW", to which the answer is always "sod all - it's not windows". Maybe this is something us Mac users could do to give our DAW use an additional edge.

Until there's more evidence maybe it's not any improvement, or there's some unexpected price to pay in some other process though. I can't think of a possible one if applied carefully though. Proof of the pudding is in the eating. I'm just gonna see if it works! If it does, fantastic. If it doesn't all I need to do is restart Live and not renice Live next time. Seems silly not to try unless you're one of the lucky ones with a 128-core Mac SuperPro and have never had the tiniest glitch in any of your projects ever in the history of time. There's plenty of people flogging their old MacBooks out there with sets near their limit. This just might save them buying a new one quite so soon. I guess it's one of those odd things in life that if no other bad side effects happen and the DAW performance doesn't seem to decrease, then logically it must be the case that good things are happening if I never notice anything bad happen in Live since it's obviously doing something! I'm gonna try it. Would just be nice to think others might be so we can compare notes! :D

On which note, anyone out there got an old mac that struggles a bit with some of their projects? Would be interesting for them to try this and tell us the results. Mine are usually fine so the odd glitch I get is not reproducable enough to really tell. Obviously this isn't gonna give you a higher powered CPU though, it'd just help prioritise it over background tasks, so it wouldn't help a continually glitching song that will barely play, but it might take irregular occasional pops and clicks out. I was impressed that I could rip a movie and be maxing out my CPU but Live was totally glitch free at the same time. Normally it would only be the same priority as my movie rip and get glitchy. If it works in a limited fashion (since at the end of the day it's not magic and won't invent CPU cycles from thin air) at the least it means I can sit writing tunes in the evening with Mail/Adium/facebook/iCal/whatever open in the background, and I should be glitch free.
Last edited by Piplodocus on Fri May 18, 2012 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Piplodocus
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Piplodocus » Fri May 18, 2012 10:18 am

masterblasterofdisaster wrote:
Piplodocus wrote: Haven't tried it extensively yet, but basically you run this little app (which is just basically to save poking around with the command line and having to work out the Process ID [PID] from Activity Monitor) and apply higher priority to Live after you've opened it up.
Yes, as you've described above:

ps -ef | grep Live (get pid, which is 2nd column value)

then,

sudo renice <nice value> -p <pid>
MBOD, have you tried it? Notice anything? Or you just know the terminal commands? I'd be too lazy to find the PID and type the terminal commands in all the time, hence why I like this helper app idea - it's easy! Maybe there's a way to write an applescript that finds the PID of a process called 'LIve' and renices it. Then it could be done with 1-click!

colin301
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: OT301, Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by colin301 » Fri May 18, 2012 5:53 pm

I've had Live "reniced" [-15] for a few months now. Normally i don't have much else running when using LIve so hadn't bothered to do this before but one time my system got very sluggish when Spotlight was taking up crazy amounts of CPU doing it's "background processing" thing while i was moving folders containing 1000s of samples around. Increasing Live's priority and decreasing Spotlight's made a massive improvement to performance in that situation. It certainly hasn't caused any problems here so don't think folks would be risking much trying this for themselves.

colin301
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: OT301, Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by colin301 » Fri May 18, 2012 5:58 pm

atMonitor application [free] makes switching priorities on applications very simple...
http://www.atpurpose.com/atMonitor/
... also very handy for seeing what's going on under the hood - if your mac starts crapping out it'll tell you which processes are eating up CPU / RAM resources

Piplodocus
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Piplodocus » Fri May 18, 2012 11:05 pm

Cool. Good to hear that there's long term use with no problems, but positive side effects noticed. Do you use VSTs? I don't really very often, but wondering if they come up as separate processes and if you renice them too, or if they work within the Live process.

I'll check that atMonitor alternative for renice-ing. Looks like it has an expanded activity monitor aspect to it so I'm downloading now. I use iStat menus for general "what's happening now" at a glance, but always useful to have more tools to work out why something doesn't seem to be going as smooth as it should! :)

Nice! 8)

doghouse
Posts: 1450
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by doghouse » Sat May 19, 2012 5:19 pm

nice is a Unix thing, that's why it's in Mac OS. Unix system admins have used it for years to balance loading.

masterblasterofdisaster
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:43 am
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Sat May 19, 2012 8:48 pm

Piplodocus wrote: MBOD, have you tried it? Notice anything? Or you just know the terminal commands? I'd be too lazy to find the PID and type the terminal commands in all the time, hence why I like this helper app idea - it's easy! Maybe there's a way to write an applescript that finds the PID of a process called 'LIve' and renices it. Then it could be done with 1-click!
Hey, Piplodocus. No, I haven't had a reason to renice anything lately.

Earwax69
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:26 pm

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Earwax69 » Sun May 20, 2012 2:15 am

In windows task manager, you right click on the process and go to Set Priorities. I've never used it as the multithreading on my i7 quad + win7 is flawless (it prioritize the app you are actually using, the one at the front).

Dragonbreath
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:34 am

Re: Extra smooth running Live on OSX

Post by Dragonbreath » Sun May 20, 2012 4:01 pm

I might be wrong but I think you would only get a bennefit from this method if your using other applications at the same time. So if your only running albeton there would be no difference.

Thanks alot could still prove very usefull! :)

Post Reply