Recording hardware instruments with plugins - problems

[Binman_UK]

Hi,

Apologies if this has already been answered, but hopefully someone can provide a quick answer.
I'm recording 16 channels of audio into Ableton via my Focusrite Saffire Pro26 + Behringer ADA8000.
For each of the 16 channels I use external instrument tracks and then send the audio to an additional 16 audio tracks to record.

I've set up the hardware latency (so small it wasn't worth bothering with in my case) and the midi clock delay etc.

I'll just focus on the channels for my TR-909 as an example here...

I use effects plugins on various channels (i.e. compressors on kick channel, reverb on hats channel etc) and none on some other channels (i.e. ride). When monitor "in" is selected on every track, everything is in sync and sounds fine. However when I actually record the inputs and then switch every track to "auto" to play back the recorded audio, everything sounds somewhat "looser".

If I delete all the effects plugins from the project and then try recording, it's tight again. It seems this is directly related to the number of plugins on different tracks and the compensation/synchronisation between them.

Does anyone else have the same issue at all? Or perhaps could offer any advice? It's making recording somewhat difficult.

Cheers,
Binny

[3dot...]

one thing to understand ...
is that the 'monitor' mode also affects the timing of recordings..
it is recommended to record audio with monitor 'off'..
this way live doesn't need to compensate for output latency it adds while tracking..
and the recordings should be in sync.
if you record in 'auto'/'in'...
live will try and compensate for the latency it injected during monitoring...

another thing...there is an ongoing issue with lives' plugin delay compensation...
it's been discussed to death.. and still unresolved..
you need to check your timing after each fx you add..
and maybe compensate manually (using 'track delay')or moving markers..

and lastly.. the more routing.. the more chance for cpu/timing issues..
so why not simply record straight to the audio track inputs ? (instead of using 'external audio device')

so unless it's a must..
you might wanna try and monitor your inputs externally when tracking the audio (with monitor set to 'off')..
only afterwards add the fx layer while checking the timing once in a while..
and minimize the use internal/external routings ..

[Binman_UK]

thankyou for taking the time to write such a through reply.
i know it's a topic which has been discussed to death but i couldn't find precisely the info i was after by searching.

your reply definitely clears the whole thing up for me and gives me a few things to try.
much appreciated mate!

[3dot...]

no worries man.. keep it tight !

[contakt321]

Are you recording the 909 w/ the effects in as audio?

What if you recorded the 909 dry, and then put effects on the recordings, would that solve this?

Apologies if I am not understanding the question/situation correctly.

Best of luck man.

[Binman_UK]

Are you recording the 909 w/ the effects in as audio?

What if you recorded the 909 dry, and then put effects on the recordings, would that solve this?

Apologies if I am not understanding the question/situation correctly.

Best of luck man.

Yeah that's right. If I remove all effects plugins from the various tracks so that they're all dry, record, then add effects afterwards it's all nice and tight when played back.

However if I have, for example, a compressor on kick and toms, delays on hats and the other channels dry and then record... the recorded audio is slightly looser. The more CPU-intensive the plugins, the looser the recording is. I presume it's an issue with the plugin delay compensation not working as it should.

It's just a pain because I like to build up a track, hit record and then tweak my 909 and synths live with the effects in-place. The latency isn't an issue, it's just that it never records tightly enough.

To "solve" this I actually have to delete all the effects plugins from the project, record dry and then re-add them afterwards which isn't ideal for the live-tweaking workflow I had in mind.

Cheers.

[contakt321]

I was guessing that was the case.

I am always worried about that sort of thing as well (sync getting lost, or strange behavior when recording, sampling, etc) as a result I just try to record dry w/ nothing going. I agree, less than ideal.