Live music is killing music!

[evaodland]

Making music over the past 35 years has been most rewarding, frustrating, interesting and most disappointing thing I have ever done.

It is like a fucking cancer...eating away at my brain....if it is one thing I have learned is...being above average and more than adequate does not a success make...who your parents are, innovation, timing and luck have more to do with success in music than talent. 35 years of playing in smoking shit holes to blabbing drunks and empty venues has left me fed up with the whole shitstorm...

Me bitter? Fucking aye...35 years of indifferent rock snobs who ignored everything you do on stage because some asshole in the local rag didn't mention your name...now the rag is some website...same shit different asshole...then going to some party and the host has some instruments laying around...while drunk you pick one up after every idiot in the room tries to make something that resembles music and I play one of the dozens of songs I wrote and stop the party cold..

"Oh I didn't know you could do that? You are really good...you should play out." they say...then I tell them ; "I did, you were there."

But that is because I am just above average...so whaT does that have to do with EDM?

EDM is not really music...it really isn't really that creative....it is just structure that sounds cool at times and gives people a platform to let them move their bodies and enjoy each others company and get fucked up... there is ZERO emotional investment required by the partier and the mid-range is scooped out so you can talk over it, still hear each other and not miss anything. EarFuck requires enough self destructive, miserable, low self esteem people to want to erase most of the work week with a night or two of drugs and alcohol induced dancing to work...

Another Anonymous DJ, a couple of decks, a couple thumb drives with a bunch of cliche bullshit 4x4 beats that any monkey can mix together... add some sunglasses and a pithy t-shirt...and you have instant phenom. Add ABleton and a toy piano VST and some loops and you are now a "Producer"....to think that this shit is anything more than the sound track to turning off the world is to miss the whole point of EDM...IT ISN'T FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE. So maybe get off your ass, take off your shirt or top and grind your sexy ass up on someone for a few hours and forget that we live on a dead end planet in the shells of these "ugly bags of mostly water" and spend most of our days dealing with mouth breathing religious morons who think having a perfect lawn is an accomplishment. I am going home in a hour or so after buying some new running shoes...it is a 102 fucking degrees and I'm crabby, I want to hang with some of my friends tonight and tomorrow and maybe dance to some slightly different EDM than I heard last week...I don't fucking care what or where it comes from. Who cares? IN three or fours years we will all probably be getting drunk to a new resurgence of fucking Polka music...

[simmerdown]

those grapes must be extra sour, ooof

toy piano vst, +1!

[cpyatak]

Wow! Yeah, now let's get this party STARTED!

Bring back Polka.

No music REQUIRES emotional investment. You get out what you put in. That goes for emotion, musical skill (and talent), creativity, et al.

evaodland, did you have that attitude when you were playing on stage? People pick up on that you know.

Seriously, though, bring back polka.

[doghouse]

The main reason that live music has stagnated is because media corporations suddenly realized around 1969 that huge money could be made via pop music. That was when the Woodstock festival lost money for the promoters but made huge profits when the movie and record albums were released.

Things were pretty good until the 1980s, then the media companies began merging and being bought by non-media conglomerates like Seagrams, whose core business is selling alcohol or Kinney, whose core business was parking lots! Pretty soon the need for continual profit growth led to the tightening of what got recorded and what got played on the radio. Huge arenas became the concert venues of choice, artists were encourage to release albums less often (until the mid 70s, mainstream artists released at least an album a year if not two) so they could be milked for maximum profit by massive tours.

On the USA, when SoundScan came online so that record sales could be precisely monitored, it was suddenly discovered that country and western music and hip-hop sold better than rock, so the media companies started pushing those to the hilt.

Of course, to mainstream country music it was necesary to get rid of nasal vocalists and actual country instruments like fiddles and banjos so today mainstream country is just arena rock with cowboy hats

As far as hop-hop, it was necessary to cross over to the white market which led to Eminem being the biggest selling artist of the first decade of the 21st centiury. #2 was the Beatles who broke up 40 years earlier but were even more profitable because there was no need to record new albums or mount tours so the only expenses were marketing.

This is the real reason live music has stagnated.

Electronic music is finally on the industry's radar and since it's just as cheap to produce as hip-hop will probably get the next big push, Skrillex's Grammy is the tip of the iceberg.

[ollyb303]

Making music over the past 35 years has been most rewarding, frustrating, interesting and most disappointing thing I have ever done.

It is like a fucking cancer...eating away at my brain....if it is one thing I have learned is...being above average and more than adequate does not a success make...who your parents are, innovation, timing and luck have more to do with success in music than talent. 35 years of playing in smoking shit holes to blabbing drunks and empty venues has left me fed up with the whole shitstorm...

Me bitter? Fucking aye...35 years of indifferent rock snobs who ignored everything you do on stage because some asshole in the local rag didn't mention your name...now the rag is some website...same shit different asshole...then going to some party and the host has some instruments laying around...while drunk you pick one up after every idiot in the room tries to make something that resembles music and I play one of the dozens of songs I wrote and stop the party cold..

"Oh I didn't know you could do that? You are really good...you should play out." they say...then I tell them ; "I did, you were there."

But that is because I am just above average...so whaT does that have to do with EDM?

EDM is not really music...it really isn't really that creative....it is just structure that sounds cool at times and gives people a platform to let them move their bodies and enjoy each others company and get fucked up... there is ZERO emotional investment required by the partier and the mid-range is scooped out so you can talk over it, still hear each other and not miss anything. EarFuck requires enough self destructive, miserable, low self esteem people to want to erase most of the work week with a night or two of drugs and alcohol induced dancing to work...

Another Anonymous DJ, a couple of decks, a couple thumb drives with a bunch of cliche bullshit 4x4 beats that any monkey can mix together... add some sunglasses and a pithy t-shirt...and you have instant phenom. Add ABleton and a toy piano VST and some loops and you are now a "Producer"....to think that this shit is anything more than the sound track to turning off the world is to miss the whole point of EDM...IT ISN'T FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE. So maybe get off your ass, take off your shirt or top and grind your sexy ass up on someone for a few hours and forget that we live on a dead end planet in the shells of these "ugly bags of mostly water" and spend most of our days dealing with mouth breathing religious morons who think having a perfect lawn is an accomplishment. I am going home in a hour or so after buying some new running shoes...it is a 102 fucking degrees and I'm crabby, I want to hang with some of my friends tonight and tomorrow and maybe dance to some slightly different EDM than I heard last week...I don't fucking care what or where it comes from. Who cares? IN three or fours years we will all probably be getting drunk to a new resurgence of fucking Polka music...

Kudos for the trek quote

[digitallush]

Wasting away on your keyboard, typing about mundane ideas is killing music. You could be typing notes into Live.

[Angstrom]

most people don't know what a good live performance actually is.

I heard that Prince used to have the film of the James Brown TAMI performance on a loop in his offices.

Watch this all the way through. No skipping.
2:37 Now that is a fucking "DROP"!
James Brown, Prisoner of Love at TAMI.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb5XpM2Tzvg

[andydes]

most people don't know what a good live performance actually is.

Lasers and robot suits?

Anyway this all just sounds like the age old issue of old guys not getting what the young un's are into.

All perfectly natural and healthy.

[beats me]

most people don't know what a good live performance actually is.

That’s a good choice of words because there is a difference between a performance and a show. A performance is all about the artist(s). A show can have very little to do with the artist performing and more to do with visual artists behind the scenes. I give visual artists just as much respect as music artists, and just like with producing music the visual arts are now at a price point where you can produce and hone those skills at home.

I think a lot of music types take that for granted and it would be interesting to see how they would feel about a large venue show that featured little more than white spotlights on the stage.

[evaodland]

Wow! Yeah, now let's get this party STARTED!

Bring back Polka.

evaodland, did you have that attitude when you were playing on stage? People pick up on that you know.

Seriously, though, bring back polka.

I agree polka...lol...actually I was a pretty good performer for a long time...I loved playing music for people and helping others make music, I had some mild successes...but eventually a series of disappointments and personal realizations starting about 7 years ago, left me sort of jaded in the end...basically the dream ended...a dream that started when I was 12 or so....I worked hard and tried to break loose and make a career and a life of music...it didn't happen...not for lack of trying but for lack of genuine unique talent or that "sparkle"....some people have some don't...I don't, I finally accepted that. So yeah I still feel disappointed at opportunities lost...had other decisions been made that the ones that were maybe you all would be remixing me...but...it is what it is. THere wasn't attitude...just the curse of being adequate. I was fortunate that I rubbed shoulders with people that went on to have that hit, to have that career...I can say I was there in Minneapolis in the 80's mixing it up with Husker DU, Replacements, Soul Asylum, Trip Shakesphere (precursor to Semi Sonic) and a host of other influencer and super talented people....the band I was in at the time had a chance...and we dropped the ball..but I kept going...for another 25 years...the public eyeball never looked my way...but only briefly...that is how it goes...sometimes despite doing all the right things, it still simply doesn't happen...that is the inescapable truth. We may say we all don't care about success or fame and that the act of creating music transcends all that....that may be nice to say but in the end, it doesn't pay the bills, put food on the table, buy clothes for the kids...and if you create the worlds most awesome piece of music and no one hears it...what does it matter then? I chalk it up to history and try to remember the great friends I made, the fun gigs and awesome music...I leave behind the nights of gut wrenching tears of failure and the hurt I caused to others while I tried to chase a dream that was not to be...I sound defeated...because I am...but for every thousands of musicians like me a handful find that dream realized....and that is why I love them....all of them....the dreamers out there living the "horror and the glory". So EDM? Yah....there is horror and glory but the scene is definitely more open and less snobbish than rock...the people are nice and into each other and at this time in my life it is most welcome.

[simmerdown]

my last 4 concerts:

wilco

the decemberists

steel pulse

PRIMUS (doesnt get any realer than primus)

and in live in fucking nowheresville montana

real concerts and real musicianship are far from dead, dont believe the forums, rolling stone and all the industry bs. seek, and ye shall find

[bartend7]

@ angstrom... awsome james brown post. thanks i havent seen that footage in a while.


maybe its the lack of respect for actual music making thats hurting music at the moment. once people get over the learning curve with electronic they feel they're ready for the world to see or hear what they do. Classical musicians, jazz musicians, and basically all great musicians of any style or genre practice hours for years. I saw a tutorial online by these guys called the "tornado twins" and it was the worst musical information i've ever seen given. Music is not like building a deck. there is not a way to do things. you have to do it alot, more than most think, to really get a unique sound. I'm just as guilty as many are of posting bullshit up on youtube and soundcloud, but i'm not making any money so i dont feel too bad about it.

[Angstrom]

@ angstrom... awsome james brown post. thanks i havent seen that footage in a while.


maybe its the lack of respect for actual music making thats hurting music at the moment. once people get over the learning curve with electronic they feel they're ready for the world to see or hear what they do. Classical musicians, jazz musicians, and basically all great musicians of any style or genre practice hours for years. I saw a tutorial online by these guys called the "tornado twins" and it was the worst musical information i've ever seen given. Music is not like building a deck. there is not a way to do things. you have to do it alot, more than most think, to really get a unique sound. I'm just as guilty as many are of posting bullshit up on youtube and soundcloud, but i'm not making any money so i dont feel too bad about it.

I don't think it's any lack of musical proficiency which causes poor shows. I think it's cultural rather than technical.
I know plenty of players on the classical circuit who are all about technique, they have all of the technical profficiency you could ever cram in. But they consider themselves savant technicians. Their showmanship is about demonstrating technique, which is fine in a certain arena. It's fine.

But to my mind performance is about something more primal than precise replication of music through technique or technology.
There is a theory that for the duration of any performance the audience member transposes their sense of self into the protagonist, or performer. For the duration the performer represents a kind of super-self. They represent everything the punter wants to be: they are potent, sexy, talented, etc. Because by forming this icon as a focus the audience member identifies with the attributes presented. Perhaps they identify with Iggy Pop's louche wayward devil may care charms, or Robert Fripp's taut control freakery, whichever it is. - for the duration the audience member transposes their sense of self onto that performer. It's a ritualistic act of "invocation" if you like. An outsider teen needs to see a vision of themselves up on stage, doing OK, belonging, rocking it. A middle aged neckbeard needs to see a 12 fingered technician exploring polytonal arrhythmia, to anchor their own sense of self.

Performance is not solely about the music, it's a more full human psychological experience than that.

So now what if the performer is a man inx a shiny suit miming, or a dude in a helmet with a backing track and a lightshow ?
What is the audience feeling about themselves now, what are they identifying with?
Jazz hands whizz bangery.

Personally I need more than that.

[Donnie]

Most people who go to shows don't care about music. They just want to be dazzled, intoxicated, or maybe get laid by the end of the night. Pop music has also set a standard that says "it doesn't matter if im actually performing the music live as long as I put on a good performance overall." The whole deadmau5 thing made me laugh because most performers at a pop level are like him...just going through the motions to put on a good show. It has nothing to do with EDM or DJing, there are plenty of people really working hard to play live and DJ electronic music beyond the norm. There are also plenty of great musicians outside of electronic music playing to the best of their ability at every show. Its just a matter of fact that the quality of musical performance will go widely unnoticed by the general attendee without an additional gimmick or combination of sensory overload. Why? Because they just don't care about the music on a purist level like some of us, its not even the driving force for them going most of the time. However they do buy tickets which keeps things going overall. In the end, as a performer who enjoys playing live more than studio work, I like the idea of still having places to perform at despite what others are doing with it.

Has this ever been any different though, beyond specific venues? Im guessing no, and if so, was probably before my time.

[beatmunga]

Thanks for all the honest, thoughtful and controversial posts so far.

Loads of great points, just a couple to pick up on here:

doghouse: a very valid angle which I struggle to disagree with at all. I would perhaps take issue with where the 'blame' lies though - you seem to suggest shadowy corporations manipulating the punters, which is valid, but I would go further and lay some responsibility on the punters who still seem to lap it all up. They should think about what they are spending their money on, I suppose. Vote with their wallets.

Having said that, there is probably some truth to the saying - 'the public gets what the public wants'.

Angstrom: brilliantly put. However, not everyone, even every teen, sees strutting macho sexuality as cool. Some find it threatening, others find it crass. Some teens find an emotionless, cold, well dressed one finger synth player the epitome of cool. I know I did as a teen, and so did millions of others like me in the 80s (I realise that this is a very European thing - the US never really bought it).

Despite my cynicism of live popular music I have always maintained that there were only two acts in the world that I would like to see live - James Brown and Kraftwerk.

Perhaps these represent the two extremes of the wish fulfilment spectrum for me - James the passionate, instinctive, funky, gaudy, bust a move sex machine vs Kraftwerk the cerebral, intellectual, clinical, motionless well dressed technicians.

Left it too late for The Hardest Working Man in Show Business, sadly. The Kraftwerk lineup has changed almost to the point of irrelevance now. But at their peak, these acts had a stage prescence that spoke to me, even through the TV screen.

It didn't hurt that their music was the dogs bollocks, too.