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 Post subject: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 46
Hey guys so I really dont know why i cant grasp this but i cant.

Came up in rock bands. then went to full sail. worked a bunch of studios now i produce electronic in my home studio. My production is spot on, thats what I do. However, I just cant figure out how to pull this shit off live using live. I went to a show last night (Emancipator and Blockhead) both using ableton and they destroyed the show. I know my stuff is good enough to play out, i just have NO IDEA how to bring it to the stage short of just pushing play.

Can you guys explain how to perform my own stuff live while keeping it creative and changing it up. Even adding other peoples tracks in, and some accapellas.??

Thanks a million and I really don't know why i just cant "get" this as Im super good at production, mixing, mastering etc... but when it comes to performing, if its not a guitar and an amp, im lost!

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:15 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
check out this video by tom cosm, and also check out his mega set videos...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3hqXpJ9-10&feature=related

also check out baths he uses an mdp32 to play out, its more of a performance type deal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZScE07x8o&feature=relmfu

i think with live, its all about getting a controller and launching your clips in session view in a creative way...even that baths video....it looks like he is doing a lot, (and not that what he is doing isn't talented) but when you boil it down, he is just launching clips, or one clip, (just pressing play) and effecting those clips.
you said you have a studio back ground...try out an APC40...you can start out with like 1 track, like a pad or something...then bring the drums and bass in, then a lead and just build up layers like you would a good mix in the studio.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:55 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
other people probably have better answers?

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:32 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 46
Eddie, that was a good answer man!

So these guys are literally just launching clips? So lets say i have a 10 song set that I wanna put together... do i need to bounce stems from each of my tracks and then load em up in my "Live session" for performance? So all 10 songs are in the same session? How the hell do you organize that? And how are they effecting clips, using send automation from their controllers?

I mean i dont want to be changing to a new live set every song, want the show to flow... also the shows ive seen, guys are doing their own songs, but then also mixing other peoples songs as well if its a really long set. how do you pull that one off with scenes?

I mean i can build up a track using clips if need be (I work in arrangement view) by just taking clips of my audio in arrangement and creating clips in session. However, i have a ton of effects going on each individual channel usually, that if i just start pulling clips into a new session all of that will be lost (compression, eq, sends (verbs, delays, etc) so I'd have to bounce down every single sound then bring it into a new session?

I really don't know why this is beyond me... I just can't grasp this!

i saw blockhead last night and he absolutely KILLED, all with a launchpad... I just don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:40 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 1536
Location: Plymouth the great
I think you get it, you simply can't believe people do what you think needs to be done. Lots of people freeze stems with fx on them and chop them up into clips. Lots of people also have lots of softsynths running and either play them or manipulate them live. Lots of people play audio loops and control their effects live. Live's remote control paradigm makes it easier than you'd think.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:35 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
I dont do live gigs with Live, but I did do a tutorial on moving a set from Arrange to Session view that might be worth a look.

Moving a song from Arrange to Session View

Of course there's a whole spectrum from what's in my tutorial, to Tom Cosm's version, to DJing with Live. You can do pretty much anything.

I'm currently doing a review of the APC40 and I've figured out a very basic DJ setup, didn't take me long at all.

Also of course there is the Launchpad, and I've done two tutorials on that.

A great addition to the Launchpad is the Nocturn, which is also very good value for money. See the section on hardware.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 46
right on thanks for the answers!

So if im looking to do a show with all originals... i need to bounce each track separately into a folder somewhere, then import it all into a "live set" that i want to use for live?

Is playing live really just launching clips?

explain how you go from 10 different songs (meaning 10 different sessions) into one big ass live show setup?? also if you wanna mix other peoples music in at the show if you have say a 2 hour slot and not enough music of your own to fill 2 hours, how do you incorporate popular stuff into your live sets? Also, are you guys working at one tempo throughout the whole gig? all 10 songs are different tempos, ranging from like 80bpm all the way up to 140....

Thanks for all the help by the way, this place is great!


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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 46
OK just finished watching that Cosm vid and it seems like a good way to get started...

so would you just take every track you have and put it in that session he created for live performace? He doesnt go into adding say 10 songs in one session... also what do you do about tempo changes per song?

Just set it to NOT warp long audio, then change the tempo manually in between songs?

Also what would be the best controller for live playing? apc 40, novation, other?? Looking to get one very soon to practice on.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:22 pm 

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm
Posts: 3458
You can change tempo and time signature by naming the scenes with */* and ***bpm.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 46
chapelier, please elaborate :)

So i did the tom cosm technique and essentially made stems and then chopped those into 16 bar pieces and imported into a new session... lost ALL of my FX though.

Why is that, i was sending the output of the individual tracks from Master to my new audio files, then bussing those out the master... Why did i lose my fx?


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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:54 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:45 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Sarasota, FL
Yes all great answers. The blanket answer, just create a set, you could even do a whole song in each scene, and fire off the scenes. Of course you can get way more creative, and make tons of scenes, each scene different tempo if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:30 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
ThreadMusic wrote:
chapelier, please elaborate :)

So i did the tom cosm technique and essentially made stems and then chopped those into 16 bar pieces and imported into a new session... lost ALL of my FX though.

Why is that, i was sending the output of the individual tracks from Master to my new audio files, then bussing those out the master... Why did i lose my fx?


Fck, you shouldn't have lost them. They should be recorded in the stems. I can't see how you could render a group track and not record the automation.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:33 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 46
The automation is there... the effects are not...

I had drums going to a comp on a return track

i had a bunch of shit going to a delay and a couple of reverbs as well.... vocals going to a comp on the return track..

None of that came in the stem..... and i have no idea why.

Anyone hear of this? Is there a way to do a Post FX output in ableton? Sorry, im new at ableton, coming from logic/pro tools.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:19 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
The effects devices won't be visible because you've recorded the track to audio. The effect of the effects should be audible in the recording.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing live with Ableton?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:25 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 1536
Location: Plymouth the great
The problem is that effects are on returns, not the stems. You can't use returns if you want to include the effects in the track freeze. On the other hand you could replicate the return set up in your live set.

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