DJing with Ableton Live

[jro_bot]

I'm pretty new to the production/DJing scene but I would love to get into it. I just set up my trial account and I plan to buy Push and Ableton Live 9 when it comes out (I would assume push and my mac running ableton live 9 should be sufficient for live performances / production right?).

My question is: Is it required for me to buy an external sound card for my computer in order to have a cue set up like traditional DJ software? I do know some DJing softwares are able to use one headphone output and separate the master volume and cue volume by left and right speaker (mono).. and I was wondering if that is possible with ableton? If not, what would you guys suggest for an external sound card?

I'm sorry if these are really basic questions.. I hope I am making sense!

[kent_sandvik]

NI Audio 2 is good and working. But before you go down the DJ route with Live, check out Traktor. Far easier to DJ with and with the new 2.6 multi-clip support yo could do similar craziness as with Live. So the only thing left is warping non-standard beat tracks (like early disco) and the option to add more SW synths and plug-ins into your DJ set. If that does not ring a bell, Traktor is most likely a better choice.

[infernal.machine]

Agreed ^

Decide if you want to be a dj or a producer or both and make your software choice accordingly. In either case, an external soundcard is going to be useful. Do your own research and see what your budget allows.

[re:dream]

Agreed as well

I have been amateur DJ ing with Live for years and it is not nearly as suited to DJ ing as Traktor and Virtual DJ etc.

Live's beatmatching is often tricky, and the only way you can get acceptable results is to spend hours before each set prepping tracks and making sure the software won't get the beats wrong or try to play a 144 BPM track at 299 BPM.

I've often felt quite disadvantaged particularly in an impromptu context, when I and friends are just doing something on the spur of the moment. traktor is a dream, while Live will produce train smash after train smash.

Where live excels for me is afterwards, where it makes recording the set, correcting mistakes, and making a mixdown really easy.

If you want to DJ, choosing life + Push seems a very high cost and max headache option

[kent_sandvik]

Yes I would think you probably need an external soundcard, but there may be a way without one. Mine makes DJing with Live easy, especially with the APC40.

I've never tried Tractor or anything, only Mashup. But I found DJing easy as long as you prepare all the tracks. First I load them into Mixed in Key, then I adjust them in Platinum Notes if necessary. Then I put the tune in Live and warp it. After that, you can't go wrong. I don't even need headphones.

I used Live for a long time for DJ:ing, but got tired of the constant track preparation work. With Traktor I seldom need to fix the gridlines and the DJ playlist is now more spontaneous and fun.

[Tarekith]

Yes I would think you probably need an external soundcard, but there may be a way without one. Mine makes DJing with Live easy, especially with the APC40.

I've never tried Tractor or anything, only Mashup. But I found DJing easy as long as you prepare all the tracks. First I load them into Mixed in Key, then I adjust them in Platinum Notes if necessary. Then I put the tune in Live and warp it. After that, you can't go wrong. I don't even need headphones.

I used Live for a long time for DJ:ing, but got tired of the constant track preparation work. With Traktor I seldom need to fix the gridlines and the DJ playlist is now more spontaneous and fun.

The new versions of Traktor since 2.5 are pretty impressive without how close it gets the gridding right.

[kent_sandvik]

Yes I would think you probably need an external soundcard, but there may be a way without one. Mine makes DJing with Live easy, especially with the APC40.

I've never tried Tractor or anything, only Mashup. But I found DJing easy as long as you prepare all the tracks. First I load them into Mixed in Key, then I adjust them in Platinum Notes if necessary. Then I put the tune in Live and warp it. After that, you can't go wrong. I don't even need headphones.

I used Live for a long time for DJ:ing, but got tired of the constant track preparation work. With Traktor I seldom need to fix the gridlines and the DJ playlist is now more spontaneous and fun.

The new versions of Traktor since 2.5 are pretty impressive without how close it gets the gridding right.

Yes and Traktor 2.6 does even a better job matching up the gridlines (improvements in 2.6.)

[Tarekith]

Kontrol X1 here, though I've been debating getting an S4 again.

[102455]

The whole jog wheel thing, with using your finger to nudge the speed back or forward comes from the days of using vinyl and turntables.

With Technics SL1200s, the "jog wheel" is the rotating platter with the record on it, and you can fine tune the tempo by pushing the platter forward with your finger or pressing your finger against it to slow it down (or squeezing the central spindle).

Pioneer (and most other) jog wheels aren't motorised, but the idea is the same. Move it back & forth to adjust the tempo, or indeed to scratch (again based on a vinyl turntable). Other manufacturers go one step further and add motors to the jog wheels/platters, to make it even more like vinyl (e.g Denon SC3900).

If you don't come from a vinyl background, or you don't scratch, then jog wheels and/or motorised platters will be less relevant to you (your technique), which is where the "button only" controllers come in. You don't strictly need jog wheels to DJ.

As long as there's a way to cue, start/stop and adjust the tempo, you're there.

Hot cues, BPM readouts, loops & effects are all things that were added to the arsenal post-vinyl, during the development of DJ CD players and then computer controllers.

[102455]

Yes, Pioneer have the Aero which can be used standalone as well as a controller.

There aren't many of those combo all-in-ones around though, unfortunately.

The new DDJ SX is getting a lot of love (for the style and for the pads) but it's a controller only. Well the mixer works standalone, but then the decks either side do nothing.

Most controllers are completely useless sans computer. A few have a functional standalone mixer, but the true standalones are few and far between.

Stanton had a stab at it with the SCS.4DJ, Numark had the HDMIX (a hybrid of their D2 Director/DDS and a mixer), but that's about it.

There are a few small units that play from SD card (i.e. American Audio SDJ2) but they're very limited.

[twitterytom]

I really don't see the problem regarding "track preparation work" people are complaining about here.

I've been DJing with live for years. I really love how it opens up the possibility to mix tracks that are not in constant tempo .

Regarding 4/4 electronic music live almost always warps them well enough to be able to drop them in while playing. the only adjustment needed is usually selecting all the warp markers and moving them forwards/backwards a little so the downbeat is in the right place. that's like 10 seconds of work which can be done live.

[kent_sandvik]

I really don't see the problem regarding "track preparation work" people are complaining about here.

I've been DJing with live for years. I really love how it opens up the possibility to mix tracks that are not in constant tempo .

Regarding 4/4 electronic music live almost always warps them well enough to be able to drop them in while playing. the only adjustment needed is usually selecting all the warp markers and moving them forwards/backwards a little so the downbeat is in the right place. that's like 10 seconds of work which can be done live.

Well, I could get ten tracks from Juno and DJ them immediately, compared with sitting down warping them in Ableton and making sure the .asd tracks are following along if I copy them over from one system to another... I rather DJ than warp, myself.

[twitterytom]

Well, I could get ten tracks from Juno and DJ them immediately, compared with sitting down warping them in Ableton and making sure the .asd tracks are following along if I copy them over from one system to another... I rather DJ than warp, myself.

copying the asd file along with the original is a no-brainer. and you really don't need to "sit down and warp" the tracks before. you can just drop them into ableton while playing. if the downbeat isn't immediately detected in the right place you simply select all warp markers using one keystroke and move them left or right.

a comparable process in terms of time to dropping the needle in the right place on vinyl.

[kent_sandvik]

Well, I could get ten tracks from Juno and DJ them immediately, compared with sitting down warping them in Ableton and making sure the .asd tracks are following along if I copy them over from one system to another... I rather DJ than warp, myself.

copying the asd file along with the original is a no-brainer. and you really don't need to "sit down and warp" the tracks before. you can just drop them into ableton while playing. if the downbeat isn't immediately detected in the right place you simply select all warp markers using one keystroke and move them left or right.

a comparable process in terms of time to dropping the needle in the right place on vinyl.

I've never been impressed with the auto-warping in Ableton Live concerning long audio files. It mostly works fine if you key in the BPM for the track before importing. Otherwise I really have to go all the way to the end and possibly adjust end and starting points. Best case it's one minute. After 10+ tracks such chore is plain boring.

As for copying .asd files along the original master file, there has been tons of ways to embed the .asd info into the MP3 file (similar to Traktor) or any other audio container file that has chunks/tags. WAV being one exception but you could extend chunking for this, too. Ableton has so far showed zero interest to fix this issue.

As for why the .asd files are so huge, I really don't know, suspect those could be optimized.

All together, switching from Live to Traktor made DJ:ing fun for me again. I could DJ anything from my huge iTunes collection within seconds. Not sit and warp and warp and warp....

PS: And don't get me started about the lousy cue and loop support in Ableton live concerning clips...

[twitterytom]

those issues with the automatic warping of constant-tempo electronic music some people are complaining about are very strange. i've very rarely encountered them in live. since live 8 i've rarely had to go and adjust individual loop markers of a track that doesn't change tempo and has a relatively straight 4/4 beat. tracks with more complicated beat patterns or changing tempo can need some work but in traktor the support for mixing this kind of track is definitely worse.

the issue with cue and loop support is just a different approach. in live you would create various copies of the same audio clip in the set with different loops points set. i guess traktor is simpler in that respect but for me the possibilities that are opened up with clips in session view outweigh this negative for me. like for example letting a drum loop of the same or different track effortlessly run in a separate track alongside the original track playing.

what bugs me is not having a view of two waveforms playing at the same time in live.

in the end i guess if we're looking at traditional djing traktor is simpler and faster to pick up but the creative possibilities opened up with live to go beyond djing are well worth the slight downsides.

this blurring of borders between doing a live set and djing is what is really exciting but i guess that is a personal preference and doesn't strengthen the point of live as a traditional djing platform