Live 9 Pricing

[stringtapper]

But 1 thing Logic Pro got down is CLARITY. No bullshit, no 17 upgrade paths or stringing along with "special offers". 1 version, a decent library, everything included, everybody gets everything.

Very true. But that's Apple for you.

The one downside is that the App Store model pretty much makes upgrades nonexistent. You just buy the next version at the full (albeit relatively inexpensive) price.

[stringtapper]

Oh well!

Im happy others are happy about this. Im happy others can afford it and yes my finances are that tight that I cant make a decision 3 weeks in advance or save up. Im happy that is amusing to other folk.

It's not funny, but it is life. You can't expect a company to anticipate the specific needs of every single individual out there. Just wait for one of those 33% off deals that will probably come up around Fall.

[H20nly]

^ exactly. it's not like this is the be all end all blowout sale for Ableton. they have sales from time to time throughout the year(s). hyper-focusing on this particular one and it's timing and making it all some personal slight is not realistic in terms of the business/consumer model.

[georgeblunt]

For me as a former live 8 standard user, it's a killer deal. I've upgraded to live 8 suite (inkl. Free upgrade to live 9) for 254€. So I get all the instruments, gigs of sounds, m4l and all the shiny new features of live 9. that's not bad at all in my opinion.

[Timbeaux]

55 pages of confusion and frustration on this thread alone sound to me like a bit more than a few drops.
And besides, it's not because people buy the upgrade because they want it, that they're actually happy with the price and the treatment they got.

for example last side (55) 10 people talking about

55x10 roundabout 550 users dont like the pricing. Lets double it up. 1000 people will not change anything. Sounds for me like a few drops.

[merges]

^ exactly. it's not like this is the be all end all blowout sale for Ableton. they have sales from time to time throughout the year(s). hyper-focusing on this particular one and it's timing and making it all some personal slight is not realistic in terms of the business/consumer model.

It is more evidence of a baffling approach to customer experience. Ableton:

- made live 9 upgrade info confusing
- obfuscated pricing
- in a forum post only, told certain groups of customers to wait for a special deal upon live 9's release
- just BEFORE live 9's release, revealed that the special deal is about 25% off the upgrade prices offered to other customers ... Only if you buy within one week of release, with essentially no time to test it or read reviews etc

I'm sorry but the whole thing reeks. I don't understand why Ableton can't jut switch to a simpler pricing model, display it with more clarity, and offer more respect to customers.

I'm bummed, because I think Live is a beautifully designed and engineered product. But I don't want to support the company given the way it has handled this for high-paying loyal customers.

[H20nly]

it is weird, but not unusual. seriously look at other types/brands of software - there are plenty of flavors and limited flavors and combinations and such of the versions they present. i'm not condoning this, but i am accepting it.

it's not fair to assume something and then start making blanket statements with more assuming that it will all somehow put the software company in their place or teach them some profound lesson... for example - this thread is 55 pages. not everyone is complaining, but there are posts by those who are complaining that imply that everyone else is too... AND there is a failure to take into consideration that there are multiple posts by the same users.

Timbeaux's math above is spot on... 1000 or even 5000 users isn't a tremendous amount in the grand scheme of things. in fact, if it wasn't for this forum most people wouldn't even know to possibly be phased by any of this. for example i would be using Live and only see the new (FUCKING UGLY) website if i was searching for help or checking for updates, maybe... but probably only because i received an Ableton newsletter.

[ian_halsall]

I don't think mine is particularly fair - I bought operator and m4l and then suite.

My price is 145 GBP.

But then I didn't buy my clothes just before xmas and take them back to the store on Jan 1 and complain that the same thing was in the sale and that it wasn't fair.

Or that some people who bought their cars after me actually get net/net better value than me on their servicing on totality.

Perhaps the examples are not exactly the same but if it's not fair and I can get a better deal and/or customer service and better product and so on elsewhere then people will not pay and Ableton will either have to change or go out of business.

[merges]

Ableton is not going to "go out of business." That's not the point. I have given them plenty of money, and I think they've built a really cool product. I just don't like the way they handled this pricing, or loyal customers. As someone else pointed out, a few new features—which is all it is for most of us who already own Suite + M4L—isn't worth about $200, and the $40 carrot of a deal to buy it within the first week of release is a pretty sad antidote to the confusion and ill will that Ableton generated when they announced L9.

There are probably 10x the number of lurkers or people who will come across this forum, than there are active posting members. I write for those lurkers, so they can learn something about how Ableton approaches customer experience and loyalty.

That is all.

EDIT: For some reason they also refuse to use their website to communicate officially and clearly about upgrade paths. Instead, we're left to bizarre gossipping in this forum about "what happens" to devices when one upgrades from L8S to L9 Standard, etc. If they're bothering to write about this on 1:1 basis to customers, why don't they just post it to their website? (Or maybe they have, and we just can't find it.)

[ian_halsall]

I don't like it either - I don't think it's fair to me - I may complain.

In the end you vote with your feet.

[stringtapper]

For me personally the $200 is worth having official support for using Max 6 with M4L alone. The rest is gravy.

[Evil_Banana]

There are probably 10x the number of lurkers or people who will come across this forum, than there are active posting members. I write for those lurkers, so they can learn something about how Ableton approaches customer experience and loyalty.

Exactly, and maybe there are 1000 people who will not change anything, those are only droplets if you disregard all the people that are not happy with the treatment however still purchased the product. You can't disregard their experience simply because they forked out the cash anyway.
When something bad happens, not everybody is out protesting, doesn't mean that the people at home are OK with it. They're just stuck in the mantra of "Life is just shitty, I can't change it" which is a self fulfilling prophecy.

it is weird, but not unusual. seriously look at other types/brands of software - there are plenty of flavors and limited flavors and combinations and such of the versions they present. i'm not condoning this, but i am accepting it.

it's not fair to assume something and then start making blanket statements with more assuming that it will all somehow put the software company in their place or teach them some profound lesson... for example - this thread is 55 pages. not everyone is complaining, but there are posts by those who are complaining that imply that everyone else is too... AND there is a failure to take into consideration that there are multiple posts by the same users.

Sure, that's true, and if you keep thinking "it ain't changing anyway, so I'm just going to rollover and not even complain", then it will remain considered "normal" and there's no reason for Ableton to do it different next time.

Again, I'm not demanding free software, and I'm happy to pay extra for good value. But I'd like to be treated like a respected customer valued for his loyalty, and not like a walking wallet that needs to be emptied.

[H20nly]

^ well Mr. Wallet, welcome to capitalism and economics. please have a seat here next to Mr. Dreamer, Mr. Ideals and Mr. Irememberwhen. today we will have a discussion on how even creating your own company will most likely not change the way others do things.

If they're bothering to write about this on 1:1 basis to customers, why don't they just post it to their website? (Or maybe they have, and we just can't find it.)

not @ your valid points, but at the website observation.


the truth is the website is so hideously ugly, uncohesive, and UNclearly navigable (for some subjects) that there could be a missing link that takes you to the 50% off page or the promise of a bbq for loyal customers.


we just have to keep digging around for blue words

[ian_halsall]

I will most likely do it as soon as it comes out too - not a ton of money - some people seem to have better deals.

Not massively better deals.

In truth because of all the options that were in place before live 9 it was probably very difficult to come up with something that was absolutely fair for everyone.

Maybe even mathematically impossible.

[Timbeaux]

In truth because of all the options that were in place before live 9 it was probably very difficult to come up with something that was absolutely fair for everyone.

and if they would have made a pricing with no options, i think there would be the same thread but in the other direction