Evil_Banana wrote:quiet_ou wrote:No, ignorance is just ignorance. Maybe there is other software that beats Live hollow. In fact, I would like to know what else is out there - any tool that I can learn about is good...
It's not so much about what else is out there, that's only a matter of preference, just like Windows vs OSX vs Linux is. You can compare numbers and features, but in the end it's all about what floats your boat and makes you work better.
And no, the prices aren't off the chart either.
But I suppose you're not a Suite-owner that already paid 650 for its software? Ableton's communication has been sub-par to non existing, Suite-owners were first left out, then strung along with the promise of a "special offer" for 4 months and finally received 50E discount as "special" offer. On top of that Suite-owners get 1 single week to make the decision to purchase with discount and there's no discount if they don't go all the way at all. All while newcomers or not fully upgrade Live-users get far better deals.
For comparison:
Upgrade from Live 8 Suite (650Euro MSRP) to L9 Suite = 249 Normal price, 199 "Special offer"
Upgrade from Live 8 Standard (350Euro MSRP) to Live 9 Suite = 299 Normal Price, 224 Pre-order
So, When you don't have Suite, you get 25Euro MORE discount. Even at normal prices the difference is minimal. The 300Euro you paid extra for your Suite? It's worth 50 or 25 at upgrade, and that extra business apparently has even less value to Ableton since they reward new customers with the biggest discounts.
They screwed up the website, they forgot to communicate, they messed up the pricing at launch and didn't fare much better since. After 3 years of waiting and fucking with an unstable L8, and then being strung along for another 4 months, you have to put up with this crap on top of that. And what they basically give you in return for all that crap is Audio to midi (cool), improve clip automation (finally), included an existing compressor, finally fixed that retarted browser to the same standard of everyone else, added a couple of visuals to 4 existing plugins, added all their already existing libraries and M4L, and as for M4L they claim includes 24 fantastic plugins without much explanation of what they do or how they work (thus what you actually get). Not even a picture.
And if you don't need Suite, you get F all discount, half of what I listed above and you get downgraded to some mutated Live Standard hybrid with Suite plugins.
The ignorance is not so much in believing that Live is better than others which is a matter of taste as I said, but rather condoning and encouraging them to be treated this way by supporting them with more money without even complaining about their fuck-ups and lack of appreciation for customer loyalty. And yes, we're not changing the world here, I'm no idealist, but we can at least try steering it a bit more in the right direction by being critical and voicing your opinion. If you have Suite and you were as excited about this upcoming release as many were, then this cattle-treatment is a cold shower. If not and you buy Live Suite right now, you will probably get the sensation when Live 10 releases.
And are there fundamentally unfixed problems with Live? Well, apart from still not having dual monitor support... I don't know. Haven't seen L9 up close yet. However Live 8 was a problemchild for a long long time. So giving people only a single week to try out software to see if it's as problematic or not... it's not much decision-time and feels a lot like being pressured into a sale.
Sonar Producer X2 price quoted, Cuebase 7 full-top version not base version and pro tools - well is pro tools!