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 Post subject: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Hi haven't been on here in a while but still use live as much as ever, O.K. i'm trying to run V.S.T's and other computer bases instruments through analog or outboard effects and then run them back into ableton to record, I use an M Adio Delta 10/10 card and i've just purchased a mixer specifically for the task, I'm not entirelly sure i need the mixer but i think i do as a lot of my tape delays etc only have mono inputs/outputs. any ideas would be greatly appreciated. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:58 pm 

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm
Posts: 3448
Have a look to the 'external audio effect'.

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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:23 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 3211
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chapelier fou wrote:
Have a look to the 'external audio effect'.

Yep.

Mixers &/or patchbays are always handy! :wink:

Have you set things up yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Hi, This will be a done in stages project.I think the main way you guys can help, Oblique strategies and Chapelier is to help with the Ableton part of the problem. How do i get ableton live 8 to record the wet signal not just the intial VST midi signal, I haven't really got used to my soundcard yet (the Delta 10/10) The main two audio outs are the only ones i've been able to get to work so far for (Monitors) and two of the inputs for recording Tapes at the moment but when i run my VST audio out through The two main outputs into my Analog delay device there's only an input for one, Which makes sense as these devices were made for Guitars or keyboards or microphones, not a stereo signal or two mono signals, So i guess this is where my mixer comes in running my card to my mixer and Analog delay from my mixer back to my card, So ive tried that plugin the delay into the mixers send return and running it through the mixers main out's back to my card but nothing yet as far as getting a result. Thanks guys any help is greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:01 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
P.S. I bought my Soundcard and mixer brand new so it's just a matter of getting used to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:14 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 3211
Location: Another Green World
The M Adio Delta 10/10 has lots of I/O. Use Live's Preferences to setup which I/O you want to use to:
1. Send audio OUT to FX &/or mixer.
2. Receive audio IN from FX &/or mixer.

Have a look at whatever software/setting/preferences came with the Delta for additional info -you may need to make adjustments there. Check the documentation.

Once that is done, use Live's External Audio Effect to route audio from Live OUT through the outputs you've enabled as your FX &/or mixer outputs, & back IN from the inputs you've enabled.

Adjust the External Audio Effect's Wet/Dry knob to Wet.

One of the main things you're going to have to monitor & spend time with is levels: you have multiple levels (volume/gain controls) & points where clipping can occur.

Read the Live manual for additional details. Maybe run one/more of the lessons as well (I believe there are lessons for setting all this up). That will be some of the best help you can get. :wink:

Try to think of audio & routing as water & plumbing! That may make it clearer.

Hope this gets you started.

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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Thanks Oblique strategies, I'll give it a try. Your a bit of an Eno fan i gather. I'm listening to Robert Fripps let the power fall at the moment, but where getting off topic :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:03 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 3211
Location: Another Green World
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:23 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Hi Oblique, ive got that one on CD,Vinyl and Tape but not the Gatefold sleeve version. Back on topic tried the mixer out working fine, Checked my preferences in Ableton for the Delta (I'd already set them correctly) Tried to find the external audio effect couldn't find it so i thought i'd google search it found what i'd been looking for all along, A step by step guide on how to do the very thing this topics on http://blog.dubspot.com/how-to-route-ex ... o-effects/ A rather different approach to Obliques strategy but in ableton there's more than one way to skin a cat. I followed there instructions on how to set up. My setup: Delta's outputs 1 and 2 to my monitor/Headphones, 3 and 4 to my mixer, analog delay (Tel ray) on a sidechain from mixer back to mixer, and mixer back to the delta's input. O.K. For the first time i was able to hear what a VST sounded like run through my Tel Ray yeaah, but there were problems 1) the record function was disabled 2) The audio i was hearing was not the same as the audio coming from the tracks in Ableton, I noticed this by turning the volume up and down on my Tel Ray and this had no effect on the tracks volume, Trying this method seemed to produce 4 tracks with smiliar volume bars: midi track, Audio track 4, Return track and Master track. I gave it a break for a while came back retried the same setup Nothing! Tried it again and still nothing, Even restated the computer and still nothing,. The problem seems to be coming from Delta's out put's 3 and 4 as no audio is going to my mixer. Pretty tough after getting so close. P.S. If your reading this Oblique could you tell me where to find the external audio effect? Thanks perhaps your way might work better.


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 3211
Location: Another Green World
Krizen wrote:
P.S. If your reading this Oblique could you tell me where to find the external audio effect? Thanks perhaps your way might work better.


Use Live's browser:
Live Devices:
Audio Effects:
External Audio Effect

You can also simply use Live's In/Out routing section to assign channels to route their audio directly to your interface outputs, & directly from your interface inputs into the channel.

The External Audio Effect just gives you a bit more options & control.

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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Hi Oblique, I couldn't find that one in the browser last week, Similar ones but i'll have another look, The way i have the leads setup is correct and i've been able to get audio through again but not by following the steps in the blog. I think it's just a matter of sending the signal to the correct ports and sending that to the master, but i'll tool around and get back to you. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 3211
Location: Another Green World
Check if your interface also has a software mixer or routing, you may need to do some configuring there as well.

Remember: plumbing: the signal is water that needs an open pipe to get anywhere! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Thanks Oblique, Your right my soundcard has a basic mixer and patchby router so i'll check that out as well, Nearly forgot. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:11 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
Hi Oblique and friends I've gotten the the audio from the mixer and effects to sound back O.K. Using Obliques method as well as the more complex D.J. forum method i mentioned earlier but i can't find a way of recording it. When i apply extra volume on the mixer this shows up on all the channells including the midi, Master and Audio channel and i can sure hear the volume difference but in playback and rendering i hear no difference in volume nor can i hear the effects added. Any ideas? I think I'm about 3/4 of the way there now.


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 Post subject: Re: Recording computer based instruments through analog effects
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:25 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 16
P.S. When i render the tracks a warning comes up waiting for audio instruments to go silent then it starts rendering in realtime Could this be the problem it's recording in realtime? :?


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