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 Post subject: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:35 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
has anyone seen or have a preset that pretty much eliminates vocals from songs in Live8suite?

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OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
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Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:48 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 821
Live isn't the best for this kind of thing. Other than EQing the vocals out or doing some weird inversion crap with a Utility device, there isn't a good way to cleanly cut out vocals.

I've gotten fairly good at it with audacity, but IMHO it really isn't worth the trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:26 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:58 am
Posts: 92
Location: Atlanta
I would like to chime in and say, there are a few techniques to get vocals out of songs (or extract vocals from songs) that involve EQ, phase cancellation, stereo isolation, etc... but they only work well in very rare occasions. So unless you have been blessed with access to the stems of the song you are inquiring about, there probably aren't going to be any plugins/presets that will eliminate vocals for you.

But don't give up! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:13 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 821
blakjesus wrote:
But don't give up! 8)


Ehh... but before you decide whether or not to give up, ask yourself how important having that one instrumental really is. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm
Posts: 677
All techniques to remove vocals introduce audible artifacts. The more you reduce the level of the vocals, the more artifacts you get.

The "weird inversion" trick in Utility is setting the stereo width to 200%, that puts the L and R channels out of phase and will reduce the level of any signal that is in both channels which generally includes lead vocals and bass instruments. This has been a common voice removal technique since the invention of stereo recording.

Roland also has some software called R-Mix that you should look into. It's $200 in the USA.

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
infernal.machine wrote:
I've gotten fairly good at it with audacity, but IMHO it really isn't worth the trouble.


thanks, yeah i tried audacity and got varying results.
it'll probably do in this case..
one of my kids needs to sing a short song in a not too
picky environment in this regard.
so it's not a totally critical result i'm after..
except that it has to sound good with her vox.. :)

_________________
OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
iMac 27" quad core, MacBook Air,
Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
Custom acoustics.

long live the small fish


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
doghouse wrote:
The "weird inversion" trick in Utility is setting the stereo width to 200%, that puts the L and R channels out of phase and will reduce the level of any signal that is in both channels which


thanks, will give that a go to see how it compares to audacity..

_________________
OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
iMac 27" quad core, MacBook Air,
Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
Custom acoustics.

long live the small fish


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
blakjesus wrote:
I would like to chime in and say, there are a few techniques to get vocals out of songs (or extract vocals from songs) that involve EQ, phase cancellation, stereo isolation, etc...


thanks, in this case, the Utility plug result was 'ok', but as regards
EQ i'd like to know more about these techniques for locating and fine tuning
certain frequencies.
any instructional info out there in this regard?

cheers

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OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
iMac 27" quad core, MacBook Air,
Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
Custom acoustics.

long live the small fish


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 821
I generally use the hunt and pick method... throw in an EQ 8, select one of the poles and turn the gain and Q all the way up (so you get a really sharp peak in volume). Adjust the frequency until you isolate the frequency range where the vocal is. At this point, flip the peak by turning the gain all the way down.. or as far as you can get away with. Repeat with as many poles as necessary.


And consider writing your kid a dubstep remix of the song they're singing. Lots of loud drums and annoying bass sounds will cover those artifacts right up! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
infernal.machine wrote:
I generally use the hunt and pick method... throw in an EQ 8.....


thanks will do some tweaking..


Quote:
And consider writing your kid a dubstep remix of the song they're singing. Lots of loud drums and annoying bass sounds will cover those artifacts right up! :twisted:


now yer talking.. :P

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OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
iMac 27" quad core, MacBook Air,
Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
Custom acoustics.

long live the small fish


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23575
Location: SF, CA
curious, what song?

many songs today are loop based, find sections of the song without vocals, make loops and play around with them.

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I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:02 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
Tone Deft wrote:
curious, what song?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efcCuFhFgc0&list=AL94UKMTqg-9C8DgQVgcBQXsH5FwnC9vUm

i think this one is sung pretty much to a live guitar,
with embellishments?

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OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
iMac 27" quad core, MacBook Air,
Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
Custom acoustics.

long live the small fish


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:23 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23575
Location: SF, CA
IMO it'd be more fun to learn it on guitar than to mangle it in Live. I couldn't find the tablature for it but someone will do one, it's a nice song. it's not my thing but that would be fun to play.

...and there's no way you could tone down those vocals and not completely mangle the track. unless that's the sound you're looking for. super lo-fi.

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oddstep wrote:
I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:38 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:31 am
Posts: 47
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia
Tone Deft wrote:
IMO it'd be more fun to learn it on guitar than to mangle it in Live. I couldn't find the tablature for it but someone will do one, it's a nice song. it's not my thing but that would be fun to play.

...and there's no way you could tone down those vocals and not completely mangle the track. unless that's the sound you're looking for. super lo-fi.


cool,
i know what you mean, and
no mangling desired at this end..

this (below) version shows it like that in an alfresco environment..
complete with aircraft noise..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEX6tpTNahg

oh well, it's out with the 00-21 and see how we go.. :wink:

_________________
OSX 10.6.8, Live9 Suite, More Waves plugs than I can use,
Push, RME Babyface, APC-40, Akai LPK,
Novation X Stat 49 and Zero ReMote SL,
iMac 27" quad core, MacBook Air,
Old guitars ('63 Strat, '68 ES-335),
Custom acoustics.

long live the small fish


Last edited by ash on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help with a preset that eliminates vocals?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:09 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 506
Location: Austin, TX
ash wrote:
has anyone seen or have a preset that pretty much eliminates vocals from songs in Live8suite?


Do a reverse MS technique using utility. To preserve the bass, apply a 250 Hz HPF to only the left channel before doing the phase cancellation.

When the vocal track is not in the mid, you can reduce the fader level of the left or right channel to match the opposite channel's relative pan volume position for vocal channelization.

You can then output the result and layer it back against the original track out of phase to capture only the vocals into a new track.

This is easier to do with pro tools or waveform/sample editors than with Ableton, since its hard to edit at the sample resolution.

Also its easier to apply this technique to raw WAV or AIF file, NOT on MP3 files or MP3 files converted into WAV/AIF. This is because the MP3 has different bitstreams on left and right channels wheras a WAV/AIF preserves the fidelity. Also, you will have a hard time applying this technique to analog recordings converted to Digital as well. Recordings that have wet vocals (reverb/delay/chorus/etc) will also be more difficult to phase out.

Basically: Invert/phase out raw WAV/AIF/PCM if you want the fewest artifacts

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